Break Cue Weight

Is the see saw tilting the other way now???

Too light and you have no mass to propel the CB....To heavy and you can't generate any cue speed and or lose control of the cue.

There is a middle ground number in there somewhere....but it will be different for everyone and every cue/shaft/tip set up...

Same with the Shaft..

The break cues that have "tree trunk" shafts....sure they are stiffer for more control, but you lose control if you can't get your fingers around the shaft....Too small a shaft and it has too much deflection to control where the CB is going
 
When I play 8/9-Ball, which isnt very often, I break with the same cue I started playing pool with 25 years ago. Its an Star Cue <Abe Rich, america's oldest cuemaker at 90+> Sneaky Pete, 20.4 oz. with a Searing shaft 13.25MM. I have a Grey Ghost, a J&J and a Sledgehammer in different weights but nothing seems more comfortable to me.
 
I'm old school I guess. I break with my playing cue. Rick Howard gave me a MACE break/jump cue when I lived in FL and it was nice.......so nice that I played with it and broke with it for years..LOL. I've always just focused on hitting the one ball solid so I can pop the cue ball back..and never about how hard I hit it. Sometimes I'll grab a house cue. I guess when I saw David Broxton use a house cue for his break cue and a beat up old Joss Sneaky pete for his playing cue to put a 6 pack on Scotty Townsend...I knew it had to be something more than the cue. It's all in the technique baby. I am particular about my tips though...gotta be a Moori!
 
My break cue is 20oz and this seems the idea weight for me. I get quite a lot of speed on the cb and it has quite a punch to it. I've tried an few lighter break cues and non have really felt right.
 
Voodoo Daddy said:
When I play 8/9-Ball, which isnt very often, I break with the same cue I started playing pool with 25 years ago. Its an Star Cue <Abe Rich, america's oldest cuemaker at 90+> Sneaky Pete, 20.4 oz. with a Searing shaft 13.25MM. I have a Grey Ghost, a J&J and a Sledgehammer in different weights but nothing seems more comfortable to me.
Click to expand...
A Star cue and a Searing shaft, OMG! I think it is probably a very sporty playing cue, isn't it?
Any picture?

Cheers,
Richard
 
To me it's kinda like hitting a bad iron shot. It stings the hands a little and you know you just didn't get "all of it"
 
Hal said:
To me it's kinda like hitting a bad iron shot. It stings the hands a little and you know you just didn't get "all of it"
Click to expand...

Thats only with forged break cues....The cast cavity back cues never produce a "stinger" ........... :D :D

Nothin worse than a cold morning and a miss hit forged 3-iron....ouch!!!!!
 
There is this guy who comes into the poolhall every so often and he uses a 46oz cue to break with. He bored a hole in the butt of the cue and packed it with lead or some heavy metal. His playing cue is like 30oz. He is a really big guy and he can't play a lick, but he likes to slam at the 9-ball every shot.
 
i think the lighter the cue the harder the hit, i have a cheapy sneaky pete i bought off of ebay, probably weighs 17oz cause i lost the butt cap. i can absolutely destroy the rack with it when i get a solid hit, but that only happens 1/5 of the time. every other time is a miscue or a miss hitting the 1 sweetly. there is definitely a trade off between break speed and control. so normally when i break i use my old 19oz mcdermott because its stiff, consistant, and hits em plenty hard.
 
I usta have a old Viking VM34, that i had a phenolic ferrule/tip combo i had put on it, and when i would slow down my break speed i would kill the racks. But stupid me would always want to go as hard as possible.

But i do believe with a heavier cue and nice n easy stroke, you can still kill the rack and control the CB.

I myself am thinking about buying a cheap Dufferin sneaky pete, that i found which is a 25oz lol. And just using it to break with.

The reason alot of people went to a lighter break cue was to be able to generate more speed. But you tend to lose control too.

dave
 
From what I am gatherring from reading is that the heavier the cue the more accurate it is?? Is this correct?

I use a Mace (rick howard) break/jump that is around 18.5. It hits the balls
very good and feels good. I think you can get to light that you lose mass and dont make up for it with speed.

What I wonder is that if a guy can consistently swing accurately at x mph then at what weight would he get the cueball moving the fastest? I think
a physics person could figure this out. If the speed stays the same what
is the relationship towards the cueball speed when changing the breakcue weight? Does it matter where the cue is weighted?

Also is there a middle point. A spot where a guy can swing softer but with a
heavier stick and equal swinging hard with a heavier stick. I would think that there would have to be.

BTW- I would recommend the Mace break-jump to anyone. I use it with a regular tip but am thinking about trying a phenolic one.
 
frankncali said:
From what I am gatherring from reading is that the heavier the cue the more accurate it is?? Is this correct?

I use a Mace (rick howard) break/jump that is around 18.5. It hits the balls
very good and feels good. I think you can get to light that you lose mass and dont make up for it with speed.

What I wonder is that if a guy can consistently swing accurately at x mph then at what weight would he get the cueball moving the fastest? I think
a physics person could figure this out. If the speed stays the same what
is the relationship towards the cueball speed when changing the breakcue weight? Does it matter where the cue is weighted?

Also is there a middle point. A spot where a guy can swing softer but with a
heavier stick and equal swinging hard with a heavier stick. I would think that there would have to be.

BTW- I would recommend the Mace break-jump to anyone. I use it with a regular tip but am thinking about trying a phenolic one.
Click to expand...

I believe most people use the formula

kinetic energy = half mass times the square of velocity

to figure out the relationship between the weight of the cue, the speed of the swing, and the total energy transmitted to the cue ball.

Of course, there should also be a variable included to denote the energy lost due to sound, friction, unintentional spin of the ball(since this formula is for the linear velocity and rotational energy is not taken into account), unintentional jumping of the cue ball...etc

This error is very important because some cues are engineered to reduce such errors which would result in more energy being transmitted to the cue ball.

For example, a phenolic tip will result in more energy lost due to sound, some cues jump the cue balls easier which again cause energy lost, some cues produce more squirt in off center hit so enegy is lost in the spinning of the cue ball and in the sideway strike of the 1 ball....etc. As you can see, you can give the same player five different breakers with the same weight but the result will be different.

If you factor in the balance and the taper of the shaft, the stiffness of the cue...etc, you may start to understand why so many players are constantly switching their breaking cues. It is indeed very hard to find a prefect cue which offers you the least energy lost with maximum energy transfer.

Just my 2 cents... ;)
 
frankncali said:
From what I am gatherring from reading is that the heavier the cue the more accurate it is?? Is this correct?

I use a Mace (rick howard) break/jump that is around 18.5. It hits the balls
very good and feels good. I think you can get to light that you lose mass and dont make up for it with speed.

What I wonder is that if a guy can consistently swing accurately at x mph then at what weight would he get the cueball moving the fastest? I think
a physics person could figure this out. If the speed stays the same what
is the relationship towards the cueball speed when changing the breakcue weight? Does it matter where the cue is weighted?

Also is there a middle point. A spot where a guy can swing softer but with a
heavier stick and equal swinging hard with a heavier stick. I would think that there would have to be.

BTW- I would recommend the Mace break-jump to anyone. I use it with a regular tip but am thinking about trying a phenolic one.
Click to expand...


I'd say there's one way to find out and answer all of these questions. Remove the bumper and see if you can remove the weight bolt and then take it out either with an allen wrench or whatever it requires. Weigh it...then make a call to whomever for a much heavier weight bolt that gets it to almost 21 oz. Insert weight bolt...replace bumper. BLAST AWAY!
The only way you're going to know for sure and most importantly FOR YOURSELF is to experiment this way. For that matter...order about 3 weight bolts at various weights to see what works best.
 
I'm reading in a couple replies here about high weights. Is there a legal limit to the weight of a pool cue?
 
CaptainJR said:
I'm reading in a couple replies here about high weights. Is there a legal limit to the weight of a pool cue?
Click to expand...


Don't worry...if it ever gets to that level you'd be too weak to swing it so it wouldn't matter. You old coot.... :p :D (I just had to do it...the devil made me)
 
I break with this. My scale says it weighs 19 oz, but it feels much lighter. It also jumps really well.
 

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nipponbilliards said:
I believe most people use the formula

kinetic energy = half mass times the square of velocity

to figure out the relationship between the weight of the cue, the speed of the swing, and the total energy transmitted to the cue ball.

Of course, there should also be a variable included to denote the energy lost due to sound, friction, unintentional spin of the ball(since this formula is for the linear velocity and rotational energy is not taken into account), unintentional jumping of the cue ball...etc

This error is very important because some cues are engineered to reduce such errors which would result in more energy being transmitted to the cue ball.

For example, a phenolic tip will result in more energy lost due to sound, some cues jump the cue balls easier which again cause energy lost, some cues produce more squirt in off center hit so enegy is lost in the spinning of the cue ball and in the sideway strike of the 1 ball....etc. As you can see, you can give the same player five different breakers with the same weight but the result will be different.

If you factor in the balance and the taper of the shaft, the stiffness of the cue...etc, you may start to understand why so many players are constantly switching their breaking cues. It is indeed very hard to find a prefect cue which offers you the least energy lost with maximum energy transfer.

Just my 2 cents... ;)
Click to expand...

an automatic little spoiler on the cueball when it reaches 20 mph .... lol
 
BRKNRUN said:
Nothin worse than a cold morning and a miss hit forged 3-iron....ouch!!!!!
Click to expand...


Other than a miss-hit on a cold morning with a 2-iron ... Not even God can hit a 1-iron :D I don't miss my old Hogan Radials much on those cold mornings.

My break cue is a Dufferin SP, 21 oz. I play with a 19.2 oz cue. Both 13mm. I sometimes break with a 17 oz house cue at home if I'm too lazy to grab the SP out of the case. I find a lighter break cue 'looser' in my stroke, and I loose control of the CB more often. Perhaps it is a moment-of-inertia related thing. (I know DM LOVES these physics discussions ;) ).

Dave
 
BRKNRUN said:
Is the see saw tilting the other way now???

going
Click to expand...

it's tilting the other way because most players/cuemakers hadn't figured out this whole break thing correctly. players were breaking with meuccis and their playing cue and other useless cues. once cuemakers got it right and started building hard, stiff hitting cues, there was no need to rely on cue speed to overcome spaghetti shafts.
 
Yes, very well said. We have tried many different tapers in the last year and we have asked a lot of pros for comments. Interestingly, contrary to what most people believe, we found that a conical taper with a fat tip is not really the best. And a very long taper, like you said, is too whippy. A lot of player also have problem with the control of the cue ball with a long taper because they always draw the ball back.

There seems to be a taper in between which offers a combination of feel and solidness. And let's not forget about squirt. I think to control the cue ball is very important.

Then there are all kinds of players breaking with all kinds of strokes and styles. Some like to follow through and bent their shafts on the table(like Bustamente), and others like to have their cues up in the air(like Archer). The former type of players, according to our observations, seem to prefer a longer taper, while the latter type prefer a stiffer shorter taper. How do you please them all? Then there are all kinds of bridge hands and breaking positions just to make the matter even more complicated.

For a jump break cue, the taper of the cue has to be good for jumping as well as breaking. And it should not be only easy to jump but also accurate to control the direction of the jump.

I see that there are tests showing which breaker is the fastest. But is being the fastest really the most important thing for a breaking cue?

We did a lot of slow motion of the break and the movement is hardly ever in an arc or in a straight line. It is more like a S being rotated horizontally. The tip usually goes down a bit, then up in the air following an arc and then goes down as it makes contact with the cue ball. The cue ball would jump in the air leaving the table surface, it would then land in front of the one ball. When it does, it may jump again when it hits the one ball but the second jump is very slight. Sometimes, it lands on top of the one ball, then it jumps again after contact and this second jump is much higher which could result in the ball flying off the table.

We also saw that the one ball usually jumps as it makes contact with the cue ball. It creates a divot on the head spot repeatedly.

It is my personal opinion that a lot of jump break cue can do a very good job of jumping and breaking the balls in the hand of an expert with good skill.

The difference between various brands is in the amount of energy loss which it reduces. The more energy lost, the less energy is transferred to the pack. But the speed of the cue is not a measure of such energy lost, and either is the speed of the cue ball.

I am thinking about this product BreakRak. I think it is a great product because one can measure how much it recoils to measure how much energy is being transferred to the rack, that, in my opinion, is a more accurate measurement of the power of the cue.

Any comment?
 
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