I ordered the Brianna ring cutter advertised on AZ, and after WAY to long, I received a very crude "tool" which does not work at all. They supplied a skinney little mandrel and light duty saw .007" (yes, seven thousandths!)thick. It will not cut rings at all. The vibration and blade distortion are wild!! They said return it, and after nearly another month they sent me a redesigned unit with the same crappy mandrel and blade. It works no better, as in not at all. It can't make a BAD cut let alone a good one. The original was returned to me as "unclaimed" and they refuse to respond to emails. I WANT A COMPLETE REFUND!! This thing is JUNK!! And now nearly 3 months have gone by. I feel that Lee Malakof has RIPPED ME OFF!! I can PM thier messages if anyone has doubt.
Brianna Products Ring Cutter: Junk!!
- Thread starter carguy
- Start date
shag_fu said:
I was one of them that posted pics. I got the Idea from Murray Tucker, and a few others that were discussing it with me back then, but He used a foredom flex shaft instead of a dremel. The mandrel I bought was too thin also. I used My saw with a flex shaft mounted in My tool post, but soon changed that to a fixed mount for the dremel It'self, so that It mounted in My toolpost. This was quite some time back, but basically the same thing as what they are selling now, Mine is just alittle more crude of a setup. It will cut billet grooves, and cut rings off clean, but I don't use the saw anymore, I plunge cut with a endmill to cut them off. I can cut them as thin as I want, but there is a hair more material loss then the thinner saw blade would have. This does'nt bother me as much, but would be nice to have a thicker mandrel for the saw. Those thin ones have way too much runnoff, and even If you get a good one they are easy to bend and eventually will have runnout eitherway from My experiences. A good thick forged mandrel of some type may help with that though. I used a brand new dremel, and it did'nt have much runnout, but the bearings in them are not really suited. You may be able to get a bearing upgrade though. I think unique may do an upgrade on the bearings for one of their machines that they sell.
I have a forged collet chuck that fits My 1/4 trim router, and converts it to 1/8 collet, that may work with My endmills, but have'nt tried using It for that yet. It maybe easier to find a decent forged saw mandrel to fit a 1/4 collet, but that router turns some really high RPM's, so I would'nt feel comfortable with out some kind of speed control. The dremel has that built in.
The biggest problem I had making My mount was that I wanted It to be quick change, and lock into the correct center height automatically so I don't have to shim everytime I want to use It. I was able to accomplish that, and setup is quick and easy. it will cut the grooves or cut rings off from the same position. My dremel stays mounted to the bracket I made, as I have several dremels, and don't need to use the same one for anything else.
I will Upgrade to a better spindle eventually though, because i still don't feel the dremel is the best tool for the job, but it has gotton Me by up to this point. Good Luck with it.
Greg
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Just go buy the industrial strength, GOOD stuff.
Here's all the slitting saws (ring cutters) a cue maker could ever need:
http://www.mcmaster.com/ctlg/DisplC...8680813955&ScreenWidth=1920&McMMainWidth=1708
Here's the arbor, at the very bottom of this page, 1.4" shank... part number 2807A22:
http://www.mcmaster.com/ctlg/DisplC...8680813955&ScreenWidth=1920&McMMainWidth=1708
Here's all the slitting saws (ring cutters) a cue maker could ever need:
http://www.mcmaster.com/ctlg/DisplC...8680813955&ScreenWidth=1920&McMMainWidth=1708
Here's the arbor, at the very bottom of this page, 1.4" shank... part number 2807A22:
http://www.mcmaster.com/ctlg/DisplC...8680813955&ScreenWidth=1920&McMMainWidth=1708
Cue Crazy said:I was one of them that posted pics. I got the Idea from Murray Tucker, and a few others that were discussing it with me back then, but He used a foredom flex shaft instead of a dremel. The mandrel I bought was too thin also. I used My saw with a flex shaft mounted in My tool post, but soon changed that to a fixed mount for the dremel It'self, so that It mounted in My toolpost. This was quite some time back, but basically the same thing as what they are selling now, Mine is just alittle more crude of a setup. It will cut billet grooves, and cut rings off clean, but I don't use the saw anymore, I plunge cut with a endmill to cut them off. I can cut them as thin as I want, but there is a hair more material loss then the thinner saw blade would have. This does'nt bother me as much, but would be nice to have a thicker mandrel for the saw. Those thin ones have way too much runnoff, and even If you get a good one they are easy to bend and eventually will have runnout eitherway from My experiences. A good thick forged mandrel of some type may help with that though. I used a brand new dremel, and it did'nt have much runnout, but the bearings in them are not really suited. You may be able to get a bearing upgrade though. I think unique may do an upgrade on the bearings for one of their machines that they sell.
I have a forged collet chuck that fits My 1/4 trim router, and converts it to 1/8 collet, that may work with My endmills, but have'nt tried using It for that yet. It maybe easier to find a decent forged saw mandrel to fit a 1/4 collet, but that router turns some really high RPM's, so I would'nt feel comfortable with out some kind of speed control. The dremel has that built in.
The biggest problem I had making My mount was that I wanted It to be quick change, and lock into the correct center height automatically so I don't have to shim everytime I want to use It. I was able to accomplish that, and setup is quick and easy. it will cut the grooves or cut rings off from the same position. My dremel stays mounted to the bracket I made, as I have several dremels, and don't need to use the same one for anything else.
I will Upgrade to a better spindle eventually though, because i still don't feel the dremel is the best tool for the job, but it has gotton Me by up to this point. Good Luck with it.
Greg
I have an old Sears/Atlas lathe that I leave set up for cutting rings. I have an old Sears supposedly 1.5 hp router attached to the compound and I use a .025 jewelers blade for cutting. .025 is about as thin as can be used unless the material you are cutting is very thin. .040 blade would probably be a better and safer blade but I hate wasting my ring work. I mounted a P/C laminate trimmer a few months ago but had to go back to the router as the P/C isn't powerful enough. The main drawback on plunge cutting with an end-mill is that you have to use to large of a diameter of one to get the proper cut-off depth. Like I said, I hate wasting my ring work.
Dick
ring cutter
What pisses me off the most is that this thing doesn't even ALMOST work! It's a plain RIPOFF! Thier "revised" version which they sent is worse than the original! Thay sent brand new Dremels both times, the second one was a variable speed one, but at low speed it doesn't have enough power. The mandrels and saws flex so much you can see a standing wave dance around the OD of the saw even with the lightest of cuts. I would be OK with the (high) price if it worked. But no way. As I said, it's a plain ripoff. All you guys are right: what's needed is "the good stuff". I appreciate the lead on saws and mandrels, and I guess I'll buy a flex shaft tool and build a mount.
At the same time I ordered the ring cutter, I ordered some shafts, which turned out to be no where close to the size advertised.
These guys have been shining me on for months now...Time to tell everyone how they do business. I presume I'll get some help from the credit card company recovering my money(any tips?), so right now I'm just putting the word out how shitty these guys conduct business.
To everyone: thanks so much for the continuing advise and support.
What pisses me off the most is that this thing doesn't even ALMOST work! It's a plain RIPOFF! Thier "revised" version which they sent is worse than the original! Thay sent brand new Dremels both times, the second one was a variable speed one, but at low speed it doesn't have enough power. The mandrels and saws flex so much you can see a standing wave dance around the OD of the saw even with the lightest of cuts. I would be OK with the (high) price if it worked. But no way. As I said, it's a plain ripoff. All you guys are right: what's needed is "the good stuff". I appreciate the lead on saws and mandrels, and I guess I'll buy a flex shaft tool and build a mount.
At the same time I ordered the ring cutter, I ordered some shafts, which turned out to be no where close to the size advertised.
These guys have been shining me on for months now...Time to tell everyone how they do business. I presume I'll get some help from the credit card company recovering my money(any tips?), so right now I'm just putting the word out how shitty these guys conduct business.
To everyone: thanks so much for the continuing advise and support.
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Dremels for ring cutters
( I have a forged collet chuck that fits My 1/4 trim router, and converts it to 1/8 collet, that may work with My endmills, but have'nt tried using It for that yet. It maybe easier to find a decent forged saw mandrel to fit a 1/4 collet, but that router turns some really high RPM's, so I would'nt feel comfortable with out some kind of speed control. The dremel has that built in. )
The Dremel Brianna first sent was fixed speed: 35,000 RPM. The saw is .007" thick. This thing scared the BLEEP out of me! The saw is so thin thet you can see it flex and wiggle. This is really uncool.
( I have a forged collet chuck that fits My 1/4 trim router, and converts it to 1/8 collet, that may work with My endmills, but have'nt tried using It for that yet. It maybe easier to find a decent forged saw mandrel to fit a 1/4 collet, but that router turns some really high RPM's, so I would'nt feel comfortable with out some kind of speed control. The dremel has that built in. )
The Dremel Brianna first sent was fixed speed: 35,000 RPM. The saw is .007" thick. This thing scared the BLEEP out of me! The saw is so thin thet you can see it flex and wiggle. This is really uncool.
rhncue said:
Sounds like A nice setup You have there.
The endmill that works well for Me is 1/16, so yes there is some waste, and to be honest on ringwork with more expensive materials used, It would even be too much waste for me most likely. I'm just doing simple 2 color check and chainlink right now, and the materials are'nt too bad on those. I make billet for them in around 12" lenths. If I had sterling & ivory in them though, It would be alot more loss to me I suppose. I will be upgrading It to something better though. Thanks for the info on the PC trimmer. I would have thought they would have enough to power the saw, but I guess My thoughts would have been inaccurate. That is one other problem with using them with the dremel also, It seemed under powered for the saws, but the endmills cut rings off well with It. Either way Gotta start somewhere, and It worked for what funds I had, altough somewhat limited as mentioned. I've been looking at spindle ideas for a while but have'nt decided on one yet. Still thinking low cost I guess, and I really need to break down and buy a good one.
Has anyone seen a cheap electric grinder that harbor frieghts may be carying now? Seems like I got a sales mailer from them, with a grinder in It that looked like the type you can mount to a tool post with the longer nose piece for mounting. I don't know much about them, if the rpm's are enough, or if It's of any use. It's just something I saw & caught My attention. Curious If anyone else has seen them or knows anything about them
Not saying I think they would handle a saw though, if a pc trimmer does'nt, then I would'nt expect it to, just curious what kind of runnout they have, and if they are any good for anything. I pasted a picture of some rings I'm doing the finishing on right now. They were made using the dremel setup, and you can see with the materials used, why I'm not as concerned with loss. I would rather not have as much waste though I admitt.
Greg
Attachments
carguy said:
The mandrels & saws I bought at first were weak also, and I really did'nt trust them, especially at high rpm's, not to mention It took too long to cut without enough speed, so It was a catch 22 for me. The plunge cut with the 1/16 mill worked much better with My setup, and cuts them off much faster. The downfall is the waste of billet material as mentioned.
I USED to work with Lee...his equipment is in such disrepair that it not usable to me...I told him the blade on that thing was WAY to thin as it flexed and distorted all over the place...lower speeds it just didn't have the power to cut through a billet...
I have no expericece with this, or similar product, but I have a suggestion that might make this operation go better:
Are you using an indicator to make sure the blade is parallel to your cross slide travel? The kerf on a slitting saw is not much bigger than the blade body. So the slightest misalignment of the blade will result in binding as the blade body rubs against the kerf in the material being parted off. This could possibly bend the blade, or give you burn marks, or uneven cuts.
You would do this by placing an indicator in your spindle chuck or on your lathe bed and then sweeping the face of the blade against it using the cross slide. Make any necessary adjustments to your tool post or compound until you are within a thousandth.
Even if you get a thicker blade that works well, it is probably a good idea to setup the saw this way.
Are you using an indicator to make sure the blade is parallel to your cross slide travel? The kerf on a slitting saw is not much bigger than the blade body. So the slightest misalignment of the blade will result in binding as the blade body rubs against the kerf in the material being parted off. This could possibly bend the blade, or give you burn marks, or uneven cuts.
You would do this by placing an indicator in your spindle chuck or on your lathe bed and then sweeping the face of the blade against it using the cross slide. Make any necessary adjustments to your tool post or compound until you are within a thousandth.
Even if you get a thicker blade that works well, it is probably a good idea to setup the saw this way.
ring cutter setup
I agree with your procedure but the Porper lathe has no compound or other adjustment. The fixture mounts the Dremel parallel to the lathe's axis, but the mount is so poorly designed that it can be deflected with pinkey pressure. The original one he sent me had big hammer marks on it which may well have been his allignment procedure. And the saw and mandrel are just too flimsey. I did not sign on to do R&D work for this guy. This problem is months old now and I'm still getting jirked around. I just want a refund for this piece of junk. This whole incident has convinced me that Brianna Products and Lee Malakof are not who I want to do business with. Lee Malakof does not seem like a straight shooter to me.
I agree with your procedure but the Porper lathe has no compound or other adjustment. The fixture mounts the Dremel parallel to the lathe's axis, but the mount is so poorly designed that it can be deflected with pinkey pressure. The original one he sent me had big hammer marks on it which may well have been his allignment procedure. And the saw and mandrel are just too flimsey. I did not sign on to do R&D work for this guy. This problem is months old now and I'm still getting jirked around. I just want a refund for this piece of junk. This whole incident has convinced me that Brianna Products and Lee Malakof are not who I want to do business with. Lee Malakof does not seem like a straight shooter to me.
I can't imagine Lee not responding to you. Possible that he is not there to take your messages. The Lee that I know would only want to make things right with you. He is a big hearted guy, who I am sure would want to see you satisfied with both his product and his business practices
I can't see how Mr. Malakoff believed this thing (either of them) worked. I mean, the craftsmanship on the first one, which turned out to be his original prototype, was just plain rediculous. It could have not possibly gotten a passing grade in a 9th grade shop class. Look, I get no pleasure dumping on this guy. But of the two Dremels and mounts he sent neither could even do a BAD job cutting a ring. It's really bad.Winkie said:
The other thing that really bothers me is how they pictured a sturdy looking saw and mandrel in thier ad, perhaps the best looking 1/8" mandrel I've seen. And the saw is cutting a fairly wide kerf: .040" or so is my guess. But the mandrel they sent is very thin and weak and the saw is .OO7" !! And Mr. Malakoff said that it was equivilant, and tested. Sorry, but I don't think so.
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Still Waiting
In his original post offering this non-functional ring cutter, Lee Malakoff said he was making 25 of them to bring to Derby City. Did anyone see one? I wonder if I was the only one who got ripped on this thing. Did anyone see one at Valley Forge? Did it work?? I have to wonder if the ones I was sent were the only ones which exist. If not, I wonder how many other people also got ripped off on this thing?
In his original post offering this non-functional ring cutter, Lee Malakoff said he was making 25 of them to bring to Derby City. Did anyone see one? I wonder if I was the only one who got ripped on this thing. Did anyone see one at Valley Forge? Did it work?? I have to wonder if the ones I was sent were the only ones which exist. If not, I wonder how many other people also got ripped off on this thing?
Still No Response From Brianna
Well, I've still received no response from Lee Malakoff at Brianna concerning my refund for the non functional ring cutter he sold me, and I am not feeling too good about it. I don't post much here; I mainly listen to those who know much more about cues than me, and I don't want to be perceived as a fount of negativity. But I feel that Brianna, an advertiser here on AZ, has ripped me off by sending me an undeveloped, non functional tool in exchange for $200 of my hard earned money. There's no excuse for this sort of conduct. Perhaps I'm new or perhaps just lucky but I have never received a screwing like this from another soul in this industry. I guess I will have to take more drastic measures to recover the $200 which he has cheated me for. It will not make me feel good, it will not make Lee Malakoff feel good, and it gives the sport and the industry a black eye.
So AZers, be warned: If my experience is any example, Lee Malakoff of Brianna is not to be trusted for doing business in a fair, businesslike way.
I originally posted on the Main Forum, but I feel the discussion is perhaps more appropriately aimed at cuemakers and repair people, so I'm going to switch further discussion to the Cue Machinery forum.
Well, I've still received no response from Lee Malakoff at Brianna concerning my refund for the non functional ring cutter he sold me, and I am not feeling too good about it. I don't post much here; I mainly listen to those who know much more about cues than me, and I don't want to be perceived as a fount of negativity. But I feel that Brianna, an advertiser here on AZ, has ripped me off by sending me an undeveloped, non functional tool in exchange for $200 of my hard earned money. There's no excuse for this sort of conduct. Perhaps I'm new or perhaps just lucky but I have never received a screwing like this from another soul in this industry. I guess I will have to take more drastic measures to recover the $200 which he has cheated me for. It will not make me feel good, it will not make Lee Malakoff feel good, and it gives the sport and the industry a black eye.
So AZers, be warned: If my experience is any example, Lee Malakoff of Brianna is not to be trusted for doing business in a fair, businesslike way.
I originally posted on the Main Forum, but I feel the discussion is perhaps more appropriately aimed at cuemakers and repair people, so I'm going to switch further discussion to the Cue Machinery forum.
