Call shot rules - What's an "obvious" shot?

[jsp]

Hmmm... Suppose the 7 is frozen to the middle of the foot cushion and I run it right along the cushion with inside english to spin the cue ball out for the next shot. Have I shot an obvious shot according to those rules? I made no call, as everyone in the room knew what I planned to do.

You're absolutely right. That is a weakness in the rules, as they are currently written.

That's why I made an addendum to my criteria here...

 

[krupa]

The 3-point criteria becomes very necessary when a player doesn't know the definition of a "kick" or a "carom".

With this statement, this thread has officially jumped the shark. If the player in question is unfamiliar with the terms for the different types of shots, I'm sure he's not going to be reading rule books.

And I noticed that Joe Tucker's rules has no mention of a "billiard".

BILLIARD. (Carom games) A count or score; a successful shot.

http://www.billiardworld.com/glossary.html

 

[jsp]

In Bob's original example, the obvious ball went in the obvious pocket. It just took a non-obvious path. You say that you don't want people to call all the details of a shot, and yet you also say that in Bob's example, the shot was not obvious. Well it can't be both things.

Yes, it can be both.

Remember, when calling a shot, you simply have to declare the intended ball and pocket (not any other extraneous detail of the shot). Once the shot is called, then the "obviousness" of the way it is shot completely irrelevant. The OB can go straight in, or it can bounce off 43 rails before going into the intended pocket. It doesn't matter because the shot was called.

The only time the obviousness of a shot matters is when the player does NOT call the shot. If that happens, then according to the criteria it DOES matter if the OB bounces off a non-adjacent rail, or if the OB glances off another ball.

 

[jsp]

I think most of the responses in this thread are missing the salient difference between "call pocket", which is what the rule is discussing, and "call shot", which is how many of y'all are characterizing it.

Call pocket (indicate the ball to be made and the intended pocket) only requires that you call a ball and a pocket.

Call shot, i.e., call the rails, caroms, combos, rattles, wind gusts, tectonic forces, etc., isn't the rule in any tournaments.

If your object ball is all by itself, then you don't have to call the ball. If you're shooting it straight into a pocket, then you don't have to call the pocket. If either of those aren't true, then clarify what you're doing before you do it. Simple.

If you call a straight-in shot, and you rattle, go four rails, and drop in the same pocket, then... the intended ball went into the intended pocket. Shot made, keep shooting. It's really not that complicated.

I think this is where most of the confusion lies. Although I write down "call shot" (as do the WPA rules and AR rules), it does not mean calling all rails, caroms, kicks, grazes, etc. I'm simply keeping the same traditional terminology.

 

[jsp]

With this statement, this thread has officially jumped the shark. If the player in question is unfamiliar with the terms for the different types of shots, I'm sure he's not going to be reading rule books.




http://www.billiardworld.com/glossary.html

How many beginners have you come across who thinks a kick shot is also a bank shot?

Again, this is where ambiguity in the rules hurts. Rules aren't only meant for seasoned pool veterans who know the generally understood definitions of pool terms. Heck, I've been playing pool for over a decade and still don't know if there is a technical difference between a billiard and a carom.

 

[krupa]

Well, OK, but suppose.... The player lines up a standard side-of-the-rack 14.1 break shot. Everybody on Earth knows what he is going to play especially since he is on a run of 525. He smashes it at Hohmann speed and the object ball misses full on the end rail, goes four cushions, kisses off a ball a diamond out from the intended pocket and then falls in the intended pocket. No shot was ever called. Everybody on Earth knows that he made the obvious shot but not as intended.

What happens under your rules?

Then the shot simply wasn't "obvious" according to the criteria. I don't see any issue here.

Yes, it can be both.

Remember, when calling a shot, you simply have to declare the intended ball and pocket (not any other extraneous detail of the shot). Once the shot is called, then the "obviousness" of the way it is shot completely irrelevant. The OB can go straight in, or it can bounce off 43 rails before going into the intended pocket. It doesn't matter because the shot was called.

The only time the obviousness of a shot matters is when the player does NOT call the shot. If that happens, then according to the criteria it DOES matter if the OB bounces off a non-adjacent rail, or if the OB glances off another ball.

I think this is where most of the confusion lies. Although I write down "call shot" (as do the WPA rules and AR rules), it does not mean calling all rails, caroms, kicks, grazes, etc. I'm simply keeping the same traditional terminology.

You're a troll and/or the worst engineer ever. What bridges have you designed? I do not want to drive over them.

 

[jsp]

You're a troll and/or the worst engineer ever. What bridges have you designed? I do not want to drive over them.

Maybe I'm a troll on a bridge that I designed. Muhahaha.

Hey, I can't help it if you can't follow along.