Calling the 9 ball

[calcuttaman]

Does the WPBA or any of the major men's tournaments require that you call the 9 ball?

 

[Bob Jewett]

Does the WPBA or any of the major men's tournaments require that you call the 9 ball?

Only the ESPN tournaments require a call. It is an ESPN rule, and a mistake.

 

[Timberly]

Only the ESPN tournaments require a call. It is an ESPN rule, and a mistake.

I can't tell you how many "arguments" I've gotten into with people not familiar with the rules of 9 ball... they say "they call it on tv"! & then tell me I'm just trying to play slop.

 

[CaptainJR]

Would be a very simple way to make it a better game. Call the 9. 9 on the break doesn't win unless you call the pocket.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Would be a very simple way to make it a better game. Call the 9. 9 on the break doesn't win unless you call the pocket.

A better way to make it a better game is to play with 10 balls and allow slop.

 

[pete lafond]

A better way to make it a better game is to play with 10 balls and allow slop.

If you are saying 10 ball as we now play nine ball, I agree. A longer and more defensive game though with fewer run outs.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I have some DVD's of Lassiter, Mosconi, Balsis, Crane from Vegas matches back in the early eighties. The rule was if you sink the 9 on the break it gets re-spotted and the game continues. They also spotted any objetc ball that sank if the player scratched off the break.

I like these rules a lot, it took some of the flukiness out of the game and made it more about position/pocketing than about chance/luck. JMHO

It sounds as though you never played under these rules. When I first started playing, the scratch rule was standard. Any balls pocketed on a scratched-break were spotted along with the low-ball if it fell in the kitchen. You have NO IDEA how unfair this was to the incoming player since you had to shoot out of the kitchen on such a scratch.

When Texas Express (current rules) came out, most players really liked it. It was considered more fair then the predecessor.

What you have to understand is that the way the game is played has changed since the rules have changed. Back then, scratching on the break was barely a penalty so players would wind-up and slam the rack as hard as they could with complete disregard. Now, they're far more careful. In my opinion (though I'm certain that SOMEBODY here will disagree with me), the game requires more skill now than it did prior to Texas Express.

 

[StormHotRod300]

Ok, i never heard of the rules that Jude, mention'd but yea, those sound like it would almost benefit someone to just slam the rack as hard as possible and just try to scratch.


As for the other rules i swear i wonder what some people where thinking!

a few weeks ago, i watch'd on ESPN classic the 97 challenge of champions. And the rules that stood out, was calling the 9ball, and if the 9ball was made on the break it was spotted lol WTF

Honestly i would think making a rule to call the 9ball would be nice, takes away from chance/luck of just knocking the 9ball in.

But having to spot the 9ball, thats just stupid. I mean i havent seen on TV too many times where the 9 goes in on the break, but it does happen.

I am not sure about other rules like a All Ball foul rule??? where if you touch another ball its a foul.

But yea, some of the rules made for TV matches are like wtf!!!!!!

dave

 

[Snapshot9]

thoughts

Although pros might prefer 10 ball over 9 ball, I don't
think the average viewer would like it because
the rack is like 8 ball too much (9 ball is unique
looking in its rack). Watching the average 10 ball game
would seem slower which might not be good for TV matches.
And the only reason they want to play 10 ball is to negate
the break and run in 9 ball.

Back in the old days, everything was spotted on a scratch
and 9 ball was played pretty much like bar rules 8 ball, then
came along 2 shot out, which added a lot of dimension to the
game and psychology. I have never been sure whether I like
the current TE rules with 1 shot out or the old 2 shot out more
since I like the mental aspects of the game so much. You never
had to call a safety either, you just shot and if you hooked someone,
you hooked them (same for 8 ball too, BTW).

I do feel now though, that 1 mistake punishes you more in 9 ball
than it used to, especially if you are playing at a pretty high level.
I do think that Alternate break is fairer to both players, because
we all know that any pro is capable of putting a 6 or 7 pack on you
if he is hot that day.

Just my thoughts ... from an old schooler ..

 

[vader93490]

Although pros might prefer 10 ball over 9 ball, I don't
think the average viewer would like it because
the rack is like 8 ball too much (9 ball is unique
looking in its rack). Watching the average 10 ball game
would seem slower which might not be good for TV matches.
And the only reason they want to play 10 ball is to negate
the break and run in 9 ball.

It depends on who's playing. The matches that I saw at the Cleveland Classic 10-ball event back in 1990 didn't seem to go that much longer, unless a slower player was playing (Okumura comes to mind).

The thing about ten ball that I've observed is that the ten seems to go a lot more on the break, more often that not in one of the corner pockets closest to the rack. It seems to get a lot of action when the player breaks from the center of the table or a hair off the center mark plus the balls seem to open up better.

Back in the old days, everything was spotted on a scratch
and 9 ball was played pretty much like bar rules 8 ball, then
came along 2 shot out, which added a lot of dimension to the
game and psychology. I have never been sure whether I like
the current TE rules with 1 shot out or the old 2 shot out more
since I like the mental aspects of the game so much. You never
had to call a safety either, you just shot and if you hooked someone,
you hooked them (same for 8 ball too, BTW).

I was glad when they put the TE rules into effect. If memory serves, they went into effect in late 1991 or early 1992.

All the older nine ball rules did was penalize the incoming player for the breaking player's foul and I felt that was totally ridiculous. With the more current TE rules, the nine and ten-ball games go faster and the penalty for a scratch is right where it should be. And, as Jude noted, I think it heightened the skill level.

I do feel now though, that 1 mistake punishes you more in 9 ball
than it used to, especially if you are playing at a pretty high level.
I do think that Alternate break is fairer to both players, because
we all know that any pro is capable of putting a 6 or 7 pack on you
if he is hot that day.

Just my thoughts ... from an old schooler ..

A mistake in nine ball should punish you, unless you get a lucky roll. That's the whole point of the game. You're forgetting that nine ball is supposed to be mostly an offensive game with booming break shots and players stringing together multiple racks to win the match. I have never liked the concept of the alternate break in nine ball & ten ball because if a player gets hot, he should be allowed to continue until he misses or scratches.

The only thing I might consider being a good change (and I'm a bit on the fence about it) is that the nine should be called, with the exception being on the break. I don't play much eight ball but the last I looked, the rules for eight ball didn't mandate someone calling the eight on the break, so if that's still the case the rules would somewhat similar.

 

[woody_968]

The only thing I might consider being a good change (and I'm a bit on the fence about it) is that the nine should be called, with the exception being on the break. I don't play much eight ball but the last I looked, the rules for eight ball didn't mandate someone calling the eight on the break, so if that's still the case the rules would somewhat similar.

Calling just the nineball IMO is a horrible mistake! When doing that if someone craps in the 8ball with shape on the nine they win, but if they crap in the nineball they dont. Does that make sence?

And unless your playing APA 8ball after the break all the balls are called. So to make a comparison you would have to make all balls in nineball called.

Personally I dont think calling all balls in nineball is good either. When talking luck more games are won because someone misses and leaves the other guy safe than by lucking in a ball and getting out.

Rolls are a part of nineball that I dont think can be removed.

Woody

 

[Timberly]

I was glad when they put the TE rules into effect. If memory serves, they went into effect in late 1991 or early 1992.

All the older nine ball rules did was penalize the incoming player for the breaking player's foul and I felt that was totally ridiculous. With the more current TE rules, the nine and ten-ball games go faster and the penalty for a scratch is right where it should be. And, as Jude noted, I think it heightened the skill level.

I'm pretty sure your memory is right on... late '91 early '92.

I agree about the old rules penalizing the incoming player for the breakers foul. If someone made 3 balls on the break... they all three got spotted up. Between shooting from the kitchen & breaking out the spotted balls... hell, the breaker practically played safe by scratching.

 

[BooBoo]

9-Ball Rules

One 9-ball league that I play in has a combination of the rules. It is Texas Express with no called pockets. A scratch on the break though means cue ball in hand behind the head string and if the lowest numbered ball is behind the head string, it gets spotted. If you pocket the nine on the break, it is a win.

 

[ajrack]

Rules

Lets make it ALL call shots/ spot everything pocketed illegally/ no ball in hand , but behind the headstring/ alternate breaks/ must win by 2 games/ HOW ELSE CAN WE SLOW THE GAME DOWN.......
People want to play nine ball BECAUSE it is fast and a bit lucky from time to time!
Jersey Red said it was a great game that began with a "lucky " shot.

I like straight pool/ one pocket/ three cushion...but having a fast and lively game is a must if you want to get our game on the TV or in the mainstream.
We need to get Celebritys playing a wild game of nine ball "ON TV" to get more interest in our game > Then we can get into the finese and the safeties that many of us like.
...my thoughts...

 

[vader93490]

Calling just the nineball IMO is a horrible mistake! When doing that if someone craps in the 8ball with shape on the nine they win, but if they crap in the nineball they dont. Does that make sence?

Woody

Like I said Woody, I'm on the fence about it. If such a change like calling just the nine ball is implemented then fine. If not, fine too. It wouldn't really bother me that much one way or the other.

IMO, the gameplay is fine the way it is, with the exception of this alternate break crap that I've seen more frequently in use as of late. If that were removed completely from nine and ten-ball tournaments, the games would return to a normal & traditional way of play.

 

[vader93490]

I agree about the old rules penalizing the incoming player for the breakers foul. If someone made 3 balls on the break... they all three got spotted up. Between shooting from the kitchen & breaking out the spotted balls... hell, the breaker practically played safe by scratching.

Timberly, honestly, I never cared for the old set of rules & I never understood why those guidelines were used in the first place. The important thing is that they were removed and a more efficient set of rules was implemented. As a result, the gameplay was heightened by putting more emphasis on cue ball control on the opening break.

Change can be good and it also can be bad. In this particular instance, putting in the TE rules was a good thing IMO.