Can't stand to watch "bangers" play anymore?

[Danny 314]

I am still learning myself and have a lot of pros (and hustlers) who show me things to help improve my game. I am no teacher, but, I dont mind passing on knowledge, tips, drills, ect given to me. Especially to "bangers". Very few want to listen. Some actually want to teach me something. Like masse or how to draw the ball 3 inches(we all want to teach). The "banger" who will listen will become a pool player. The rest of the know-it-all "bangers" will become ATMs.

 

[APA7]

Especially to "bangers". Very few want to listen. Some actually want to teach me something. Like masse or how to draw the ball 3 inches(we all want to teach). The "banger" who will listen will become a pool player. The rest of the know-it-all "bangers" will become ATMs.

Sounds like U R talking about the person that started this thread

Brian

 

[Eric.]

Sounds like U R talking about the person that started this thread

Brian

Well, not to pick on Billy_Bob but this the topic of people who shouldn't be giving "how-to play" advice so freely is a sore subject to me.

I remember just starting to play Pool seriously. I was in a Poolhall, missing a particular cut shot and getting frustrated. A better player, which turned out to be a mediocre player at best, but was noticibly better than me at the time, gave me some advice on how to shoot. This idiot screwed up and hindered my learning process for a long time. I spent a while using his advice and when I finally got better, I realized how bad his advice was.

What did he tell me?

"You should use a little outside english on every cut shot to help it go"

Now this advice works in certain situations, but it sure is hell ain't the rule of thumb for every shot. Some people just aren't qualified to play teacher.


Eric >still burns my ass

 

[pooltchr]

Some people just aren't qualified to play teacher.


Eric >still burns my ass[/QUOTE]

Eric,
You are so right. There is a ton of mis-information passed from player to player all the time. Very good players are often not very good teachers. I've heard them referred to as "Murphys". Not quite sure where that name originated.
One way to filter through it all is to ask "why?". If the person can't give a valid reason for something, it may not be quite accurate. Also, when someone tells you to do something on EVERY shot, you can probably find times when it isn't the thing to do.
I, like you, wish I had the benefit of proper instruction much earlier in my pool playing career.
Steve

 

[ScottW]

Sometimes you gotta love bangers.

I won $165 in two little bar-banger tournaments this week.

 

[Eric.]

Some people just aren't qualified to play teacher.


Eric >still burns my assEric,
You are so right. There is a ton of mis-information passed from player to player all the time. Very good players are often not very good teachers. I've heard them referred to as "Murphys". Not quite sure where that name originated.
One way to filter through it all is to ask "why?". If the person can't give a valid reason for something, it may not be quite accurate. Also, when someone tells you to do something on EVERY shot, you can probably find times when it isn't the thing to do.
I, like you, wish I had the benefit of proper instruction much earlier in my pool playing career.
Steve

I agree, Steve, that very good players aren't always the best teachers, although, good players usually speak from solid experience. The guy I was talking about was about a D+ player, maybe a C player at best. I guess some people get their ego's satisfied by sounding like an authority on something. Meanwhile, in satisfying his ego, he did more harm than good to my game for years. If I saw him today, I would take his cue and break it


Eric

 

[poolhall maven]

bangers

Someone came up to me and politely asked me about my break shot and how I got the cb to squat after hitting the 1 ball so I explained it to him and then within 10 minutes he was doing it himself and making balls on the break.

So 9ball do tell us all how you got the cb to squat after hitting the one ball!
PHM

 

[chefjeff]

Well, not to pick on Billy_Bob but this the topic of people who shouldn't be giving "how-to play" advice so freely is a sore subject to me.

I remember just starting to play Pool seriously. I was in a Poolhall, missing a particular cut shot and getting frustrated. A better player, which turned out to be a mediocre player at best, but was noticibly better than me at the time, gave me some advice on how to shoot. This idiot screwed up and hindered my learning process for a long time. I spent a while using his advice and when I finally got better, I realized how bad his advice was.

What did he tell me?

"You should use a little outside english on every cut shot to help it go"


Jeff Livingston

Now this advice works in certain situations, but it sure is hell ain't the rule of thumb for every shot. Some people just aren't qualified to play teacher.


Eric >still burns my ass

Excuse me, but who was it that listened to and heeded this "advice?" Were you forced to take his advice? Doesn't some (most?---all?) of the responsibility for your errors lie in YOUR choice of who you listened to to get the advice? You could have ingnored him, or looked it up, or asked others to confirm it, or taken a lesson, or tested it on the table to prove it to yourself, or.....

The universe throws us crap all the time, it always has and always will...isn't it up to each one of us to learn how to handle it and integrate it properly? We can't magically make the universe give us only what's good for us (regardless of mystical, violent control-freaks attempts to do just that). I don't see how complaining about sources of bad advice helps anyone, other than as a warning to be careful and honest with oneself and what one is willing to believe.

Jeff Livingston

 

[blah blah]

bang bang

I like watching "bangers."

1-- Gives me better focus and desire to play. It's easier to see the possibilities of what should have been done and why, esp when they keep surprising you with weirdnesses (stroke, bridge, shot choices, cb control). This makes me seriously itch to get on my own table and do it myself- correctly.

2-- They remind me to have humility. Ballbangers will whack away at anything and take total, shameless pride in balls that accidentally made it in, barely made it in, and even (!) almost made it in. They remind me that many of my own rolls are lucky and to stop short and notice when I was aiming for the back of the pocket but actually just wobbled it in.

3-- They enjoy the game so much, but in a different way than do "players." They remind me of when it was total fun and magic to see when one ball hits another and (omg!) everything goes in different directions. Bangers know the childlike joy and elation of pool- we "serious players" have lost that joy in place of deep pleasure, concentration, and satisfaction of fulfillment.

all of that said, i still can't watch bangers for too long.

 

[Eric.]

Excuse me, but who was it that listened to and heeded this "advice?" Were you forced to take his advice? Doesn't some (most?---all?) of the responsibility for your errors lie in YOUR choice of who you listened to to get the advice? You could have ingnored him, or looked it up, or asked others to confirm it, or taken a lesson, or tested it on the table to prove it to yourself, or.....

The universe throws us crap all the time, it always has and always will...isn't it up to each one of us to learn how to handle it and integrate it properly? We can't magically make the universe give us only what's good for us (regardless of mystical, violent control-freaks attempts to do just that). I don't see how complaining about sources of bad advice helps anyone, other than as a warning to be careful and honest with oneself and what one is willing to believe.

Jeff Livingston

Jeff,

You missed the point. How is a newbie supposed to know the difference between good advice and bad advice? It wasn't until I was able to figure out whether the advice was good or bad that the damage was done.

The point isn't to control the world of bad Pool advice, moreso, a sharing of my bad experiece with a wannabe Pool know-it-all. You can consider my post a "learn from my mistake" post, so if it helps someone to not fall into the same trap, then my post was worth while. BTW, there is alot of "not-so-good" advice on Pool forums so consider the sources.


Eric

 

[chefjeff]

Jeff,

You missed the point. How is a newbie supposed to know the difference between good advice and bad advice? It wasn't until I was able to figure out whether the advice was good or bad that the damage was done.

The point isn't to control the world of bad Pool advice, moreso, a sharing of my bad experiece with a wannabe Pool know-it-all. You can consider my post a "learn from my mistake" post, so if it helps someone to not fall into the same trap, then my post was worth while. BTW, there is alot of "not-so-good" advice on Pool forums so consider the sources.


Eric

Point taken. May we all learn from your experience and be happier for it. I, too quickly, jumped on you (sorry) because I'm seeing, more and more, laws being passed and force-backed strategies being taken by the control freaks that are supposed to save us from ______(fill in current public scare tactic), while taking away every individual's power to control and manage his/her life effectively against the harm that the universe throws at us, and always will. Your post had me thinking about those things.

As to your question about how a pool newbie is to know...I realize our public propaganda prisons (aka public schools) rarely care to teach how to actually think anymore, but thinking honestly is the only way for anyone to know what advice to heed/avoid. Honesty can be intergrated into a PROCESS of learning so the process itself weeds out inconsistencies, contradictions, dangers, etc. automatically. In pool, I use my personal recipe for this. But it doesn't matter if the subject is pool, politics, or whatever, the process of integrated honesty works to dismiss negative and erroneous thinking/acting.

For fuller discussion on integrated honesty, go here:

www.neo-tech.com

From my experience and from what history tells me, most people default on honest integrations as it requires changing firmly held beliefs, leaving behind "friends," making major life changes, dumping mysticisms, constantly determining which advice is good-for-me and which isn't, etc. And integrated honesty requires focused efforts to fully think through concepts, and it requires putting aside immediate, personal pleasures and replacing them with thoughts and actions integrated with one's long-term happiness. When I get lazy about this, the universe spanks me.

Watching bangers (or being one, for that matter) requires being honest, IF one is to get something out of the experience that adds to his/her happiness.

Sermon is over; pass the plate

Jeff Livingston