canvas phenolic ferrule questions

[fordtechandy]

I want to install a leather tip on an early sledgehammer cue. since i Haven't worked with any phenolic's yet. I basically have 3 questions.

1) Will my normal carbide cutter be suitable for phenolic?
2) Is the ferrule press fit or threaded? If its threaded and i face the tip crown off will the cap still be thick enough or if it's press fit should i face it off back to the tenion removing the cap before installing tip?
3) What glue to use to put the leather tip on with? I have been using loctite pro

any advice will help alot thanks inadvace

 

[KJ Cues]

Hi Andy,
Here are your answers :

1). Carbide tooling will cut just about anything that you throw at it.

2). I seriously doubt that the tip/ferrule is thrded. on nor do I believe it's a press-fit. Consider the process at the time it was first installed. Epoxy, or other adhesive, would have been swabbed onto the tenon and the interior of the T/F. As the T/F is now being pushed onto the tenon, the excess epoxy has no 'typical' glue-relief hole in the crown to escape from. It has to escape at the base of the tenon. If there is no clearance btwn. the tenon and the interior of the T/F you more than likely would split the wall of the T/F due to hydraulic pressure.

2a). There's no telling how thick the cap/crown is but it doesn't make any difference. Trim just the crown, down to a true flat surface to accept the tip and if you haven't gone through to the tenon, you'll have a capped ferrule. If you do expose the tenon then your ferrule will be a 'through' type. In either event, you should be fine.

3). CA is the accepted adhesive for tips. Loctite is a good choice.

As a side note, one of the inherent flaws of canvas phenolic is that it is made using the flat-laminate process. Each layer/laminate is a seam to the outside of the ferrule. If/when it splits, it will split along one of those seams every time. My choice for this application (and all my phenolic tips) is rolled/molded linen phenolic. The linen is rolled around a mandrel as the resin is applied. The result is that there are no seams to the outside and the ferrule wall is actually reinforced by the multiple layers wrapped on top of one another. There goes another 'secret'.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Hi Andy,
As a side note, one of the inherent flaws of canvas phenolic is that it is made using the flat-laminate process. Each layer/laminate is a seam to the outside of the ferrule. If/when it splits, it will split along one of those seams every time. My choice for this application (and all my phenolic tips) is rolled/molded linen phenolic. The linen is rolled around a mandrel as the resin is applied. The result is that there are no seams to the outside and the ferrule wall is actually reinforced by the multiple layers wrapped on top of one another. There goes another 'secret'.

tap tap tap
I guess you don't like the new Ivorine IV as they look like flat sheets turned round to me.

 

[Zims Rack]

I take it you guys would recommend the linen phenolic over the canvas phenolic for tip/ferrule combos?

Zim

 

[KJ Cues]

Absolutely, without a doubt, everyday of the week.

I've heard the talk that the canvas holds chalk better due to the thicker cordage but in all honesty, I think that if you could measure you'd find that they both have similar thread/fibre count so I don't buy that argument.

Look at an end view of both mtrls. The determination of which would be the stronger should be obvious. The flat laminate layers all run to the outside, no matter which way you turn it or how it's cut. The rolled/molded linen is in essence 'wrapped around the tenon', again, again and again. It's constantly overlapping itself with no set pattern. There are NO seams running to the outside. It's very much stronger.

I just did a quick cost comparison of the mtrls. and as one would expect, the canvas is cheaper.......by about half. However, what that means as far as cost of finished ferrule is, a difference of .25 (cents). My labor stays the same. I'll gladly make 25 cents less per install to protect my rep., knowing I'm using the strongest mtrl. available for this application. I gotta believe that my clients appreciate my decision.

 

[KJ Cues]

tap tap tap
I guess you don't like the new Ivorine IV as they look like flat sheets turned round to me.

Hi Joey,
I haven't used any of the IV, I'm still using the last of my III. Given what I've read about it's unfriendly relationship with tooling, I may just pass it by. My preference is Aegis, just love the stuff. Too bad it's so heavy. I'd feel pretty lucky to get my hands on some original Aegis (hint, hint). Real nice ivory grain and strong as the hubs of hell.