Changing pin on a warped but - what would you do?

[Newton]

I knocked my self in to this one during a new pin install and it was a J&B cue which could be split in 3.

Have seen this before but never done a pin replacement on one - and it was a pain. The warp was in the second joint above the handle and it did show in my
machine - but funny enough I noticed the pin had TIR - but not the cue was warped.

I was so focused on changing the pin so I though this was a bad job and continued. However after the pin was in - I noticed wobble on the portion sticking out on my back chuck.
This was of course just a small portion of the cue - but I noticed this immediately so I rolled the cue - and yes it was warped.

Needles to say, the pin was installed with some TIR (0,1mm) but I thought it was OK- so I faced the joint section and attached the shaft.

Wobble... It would never roll straight and the facing causes the surface to be non even - meaning when you look at the joint ring on the cue you would see a area where the shaft can't tighten down to the butts face.

My idea on this is :

1 - Split the butt section and face each side to see if this could take out the warpage. It seems to be in the joint it self.

2 - Remove pin - reinstall and new face cut.

3 - in worst case - split the butt section, chuck up on the forarm and use a steady rest so at least the pin and face is OK. The rest of the warped butt is something the customer should discuss with the one who sold him the cue (new).


Would this be a OK approach or is this cue "lost" ?

What would you do in case?

K

 

[conetip]

Hi Kent,
Obviously the customer knows the handle is not straight.
How much are you talking about, .5mm 2mm ?
If the warp is slight, you can set it up with the steady at the pin end, bore it out, insert and put in a new pin, face.
That will also show you/customer the amount it is bent.That will be as good as it gets unless you/customer decides to repair and correct this.
Usually there is a reason for it becoming bent, often reflected in the purchase price of the cue and it's construction .
Neil

 

[Arnot Wadsworth]

I knocked my self in to this one during a new pin install and it was a J&B cue which could be split in 3.

Have seen this before but never done a pin replacement on one - and it was a pain. The warp was in the second joint above the handle and it did show in my
machine - but funny enough I noticed the pin had TIR - but not the cue was warped.

I was so focused on changing the pin so I though this was a bad job and continued. However after the pin was in - I noticed wobble on the portion sticking out on my back chuck.
This was of course just a small portion of the cue - but I noticed this immediately so I rolled the cue - and yes it was warped.

Needles to say, the pin was installed with some TIR (0,1mm) but I thought it was OK- so I faced the joint section and attached the shaft.

Wobble... It would never roll straight and the facing causes the surface to be non even - meaning when you look at the joint ring on the cue you would see a area where the shaft can't tighten down to the butts face.

My idea on this is :

1 - Split the butt section and face each side to see if this could take out the warpage. It seems to be in the joint it self.

2 - Remove pin - reinstall and new face cut.

3 - in worst case - split the butt section, chuck up on the forarm and use a steady rest so at least the pin and face is OK. The rest of the warped butt is something the customer should discuss with the one who sold him the cue (new).


Would this be a OK approach or is this cue "lost" ?

What would you do in case?

K

You should have determined what was wrong with the cue BEFORE you started working on it. In my opinion, now that you have worked on it you are responsible for it not the original maker. Working on this cue was a lose/lose situation and the work should have been refused. Your reputation is a risk because you might have made the worse than it was in the beginning. IMO facing the joints will not help the problem. From here you should consider speaking with the cue's owner and see if you both can come to a fair solution. Be prepared to buy a new cue. Next time look before you leap.

 

[Russell Cues]

You should have determined what was wrong with the cue BEFORE you started working on it. In my opinion, now that you have worked on it you are responsible for it not the original maker. Working on this cue was a lose/lose situation and the work should have been refused. Your reputation is a risk because you might have made the worse than it was in the beginning. IMO facing the joints will not help the problem. From here you should consider speaking with the cue's owner and see if you both can come to a fair solution. Be prepared to buy a new cue. Next time look before you leap.

I agree, always check for straightness or other defects before you get into a repair, if not you could be opening Pandora's box.

 

[Newton]

You should have determined what was wrong with the cue BEFORE you started working on it. In my opinion, now that you have worked on it you are responsible for it not the original maker. Working on this cue was a lose/lose situation and the work should have been refused. Your reputation is a risk because you might have made the worse than it was in the beginning. IMO facing the joints will not help the problem. From here you should consider speaking with the cue's owner and see if you both can come to a fair solution. Be prepared to buy a new cue. Next time look before you leap.

I respect your view but can't disagree more. If you go to a garage and have a mechanic change your rims to some nice alloys,
do you then hold him responsible if the car don't steer straight even if the car had the front suspension misaligned or similar ?

I do not agree and neither do the owner of the cue.

The point with this post was to help him out in the best way I can - the
customer is actually happy - but I'm a thorough guy and don't like the fact
that I did not check this and focused only on the pin which he wanted changed.
That lesson is learned - and no - I don't have to buy him a new cue.


Anyway, I'll do some more thoughts on it and make my decision from there.
K

 

[Newton]

Hi Kent,
Obviously the customer knows the handle is not straight.
How much are you talking about, .5mm 2mm ?
If the warp is slight, you can set it up with the steady at the pin end, bore it out, insert and put in a new pin, face.
That will also show you/customer the amount it is bent.That will be as good as it gets unless you/customer decides to repair and correct this.
Usually there is a reason for it becoming bent, often reflected in the purchase price of the cue and it's construction .
Neil

Thanks for your feedback.

The cue has been accepted by the customer and he see that the wobble in the butt is causing the problems - but all in all he is OK with what I have done and can survive the warp.

Since this is in the joint on the butt I was wondering if option 1 and 2 was worth trying or just leave the cue as is.
The owner don't bother sending it back to the shop which sold the cue - it's to much hassle he says so he's not to worried.

I'm just trying to help him as best as I can and potentially hear what you guys would have done,
but your idea is one I can agree with :smile:

Thanks
K

 

[KJ Cues]

You should have determined what was wrong with the cue BEFORE you started working on it. In my opinion, now that you have worked on it you are responsible for it not the original maker. Working on this cue was a lose/lose situation and the work should have been refused. Your reputation is a risk because you might have made the worse than it was in the beginning. IMO facing the joints will not help the problem. From here you should consider speaking with the cue's owner and see if you both can come to a fair solution. Be prepared to buy a new cue. Next time look before you leap.

I don't agree with your position either Arnot.
The cue was known to have a problem when it came in.
Kent's efforts at correcting the problem(s) does not saddle him
with that problem or anything the cue endured prior to his attempts at correction.
The only thing that he is responsible for is what he's done, nothing else.
Should the client get a new cue from this??? Hell NO!!!!
The cue was bent when it came in, that's why it was in for repair.
Now you're suggesting that Kent replace the cue because he's touched it???
Refacing ALL the joints may make the cue better but it will never be right.
It may not have been right from day one.
Is that Kent's fault?
KJ

 

[Arnot Wadsworth]

I don't agree with your position either Arnot.
The cue was known to have a problem when it came in.
Kent's efforts at correcting the problem(s) does not saddle him
with that problem or anything the cue endured prior to his attempts at correction.
The only thing that he is responsible for is what he's done, nothing else.
Should the client get a new cue from this??? Hell NO!!!!
The cue was bent when it came in, that's why it was in for repair.
Now you're suggesting that Kent replace the cue because he's touched it???
Refacing ALL the joints may make the cue better but it will never be right.
It may not have been right from day one.
Is that Kent's fault?
KJ

KJ I was replying to the original post. Go read the origial post and then reply accordingly.

 

[conetip]

Since this is in the joint on the butt I was wondering if option 1 and 2 was worth trying or just leave the cue as is.
The owner don't bother sending it back to the shop which sold the cue - it's to much hassle he says so he's not to worried.


Unless you get an xray or know what is there, you may be opening a can of worms in trying to repair.
If the cue is a lost cause, ie the customer does not mind if it is scraped, there is nothing to loose cutting it up and attempting a repair.

The only other compromise I can think of, is setting the cue true to the best part of the cue handle, do the pin work true to that.
It will still be playable as long as the customer has a reference to where the best place to hold the cue.
Neil

 

[Newton]

Since this is in the joint on the butt I was wondering if option 1 and 2 was worth trying or just leave the cue as is.
The owner don't bother sending it back to the shop which sold the cue - it's to much hassle he says so he's not to worried.


Unless you get an xray or know what is there, you may be opening a can of worms in trying to repair.
If the cue is a lost cause, ie the customer does not mind if it is scraped, there is nothing to loose cutting it up and attempting a repair.

The only other compromise I can think of, is setting the cue true to the best part of the cue handle, do the pin work true to that.
It will still be playable as long as the customer has a reference to where the best place to hold the cue.
Neil

Thanks a bunch Neil.

The owner is cool since the cue was warped when I received it. He was actually not to concerned if changing the joint size did go down the drain- since it was my first "swap".

Option 1 and 2 is something I was considering before the cue left me-but the owner insisted that this was no big deal-he would at least like to see how bad it was. He had not rolled the cue and had therefor not noticed this .
However I did not want it to leave, but now I'm just considering a strategy to potentially save this cue and restore it for him as a learning experience.
This is why I was eager on hearing what you thought about it

I would see the cue again this weekend and then actually check the pin in the handle section to see if this is bent or something.
Rolling forarm and handle separated did not indicate any warpage in the BEM so this put me on the idea of facing the section.
The question is if option 1 is enough if the pin is bent between the handle and the forarm- would a firm connection be enough to straighten up the joint through the faces or would the pin be the "strongest"?

Thanks for the feedback.

K