To any instructor, in your opinion, what is the main difference between the old felt verses Simonis? I started playing in the mid 70's when cloth was only available. and then took a 20 year year hiatus. This Simonis seems to be a different critter. Let's take a spot shot, for example, on the old felt. Cutting it in from the right, with right hand english,I used to aim almost a full ball and let the cue ball swerve to the proper contact point. Now, with Simonis, this isn't possible.
Cloth
- Thread starter cutnedge
- Start date
ebglish on cloth
Cutnedge,
I've been playing with english for 46 yrs. & I have never shot a spot shot the way U described.(full ball) Were you hitting the cue ball on the exact horizontal axis & were you hitting with inside or outside 'english'? You may have been making the shot with deflection rather than spin. Hence bbb's question about the shafts, old regular high deflection or newer low deflection.
As to the cloth, the Simonis is slicker & faster than the old 'felts' but there also seems to be less cushion between the slate. So, there is a bit of an offset. I'm speaking in reference to english only. When I first started playing on the Simonis I was under cutting some of the outside english shots & over cutting some of the inside english shots. It's due to a bit of difference in the cue ball swerve factor & is also dependent on the speed of the shot & sometimes a skid is involved.
With a little practice you should be able to subconsciously adapt.
Just my $0.02 & please note I am not an instructor.
Cutnedge,
I've been playing with english for 46 yrs. & I have never shot a spot shot the way U described.(full ball) Were you hitting the cue ball on the exact horizontal axis & were you hitting with inside or outside 'english'? You may have been making the shot with deflection rather than spin. Hence bbb's question about the shafts, old regular high deflection or newer low deflection.
As to the cloth, the Simonis is slicker & faster than the old 'felts' but there also seems to be less cushion between the slate. So, there is a bit of an offset. I'm speaking in reference to english only. When I first started playing on the Simonis I was under cutting some of the outside english shots & over cutting some of the inside english shots. It's due to a bit of difference in the cue ball swerve factor & is also dependent on the speed of the shot & sometimes a skid is involved.
With a little practice you should be able to subconsciously adapt.
Just my $0.02 & please note I am not an instructor.
RJ:
FYI, with nap cloth, it depends if the cloth were properly brushed or not. Properly brushed (i.e. from head of the table to the foot of the table *only*, in long swipes), you have direction in the nap of the cloth.
The technique that the OP describes actually does work, because, in a directional nap, of the way the spin "grabs" the tips of the fibers as the cue ball rolls over them. Obviously, unmaintained nap cloth has fibers going in every which direction, so carefully applied spin doesn't have the same effect as it does on directional nap.
Snooker tables use nap cloth, and the cloth is ALWAYS brushed from head to foot to create the directional nap. In fact, when you see a referee replace a colored ball back on its spot, you'll always see him/her place the ball on the table slightly "high" (i.e. above the spot), and then gently roll the ball "downwards" (with the nap of the cloth) onto its final resting place on its spot.
However, pool tables are not exactly known for the same level of meticulous maintenance and care that snooker tables are, so it's quite possible that the place(s) the OP played at, differed from yours in levels of TLC afforded to the nap cloth. Like I said, maintained nap cloth definitely *does* affect the cue ball's travel with spin (it gently masses); while unmaintained cloth doesn't.
Although this topic is well-known in the snooker circles, the best reference in the pool world that I can find about nap direction affecting the path of rolling balls, is Freddy the Beard's "Banking with the Beard" book and video. Freddy goes into good detail how the balls roll over a well-maintained nap cloth vs. unmaintained cloth.
I would highly suggest you check out "Banking with the Beard" if you've never heard of this. It will definitely open your eyes!
EDIT: I just found a video that demonstrates this effect of a properly-maintained nap cloth upon rolling (without spin) and spinning balls. Notice that in the UK, the term "side" is used to describe spin, or your "english!" RJ.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Or-rnxhidwk
-Sean
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Sean,
Thanks for the info & vid. I play golf on Bermuda Greens. So I totally undersatand 'grain' & 'napp'. (a golf ball can roll up hill due to grain)
The Brit in the vid also referred to 'pocket weight'. Should we throw 'pocket speed' out of our pool vernacular & start speaking totally like a Brit?
In tennis one can hit with top spin, underspin, combination spin, or 'flat'. I don't know what the Brits call any of them. In ping pong, I believe all of the spins are called 'english'. If I'm spinning a cue ball, I'm putting english on it even if I'm drawing it straight back with no 'side' english. One could simply call it 'draw' but I do not think it would be wrong or incorrect to also call it 'draw english'.
I understand that some instructors want to & do differentiate & only refer to side spin as english. I doubt that I will be conforming to that line any time soon. To me anything not dead center & straight up on the vertical axis involves english. (To me, even a force follow is 'top spin'.)
With some more info from the OP, I'm sure many of us will be able to figure it out & be helpful.
Best Regards,
Thanks for the info & vid. I play golf on Bermuda Greens. So I totally undersatand 'grain' & 'napp'. (a golf ball can roll up hill due to grain)
The Brit in the vid also referred to 'pocket weight'. Should we throw 'pocket speed' out of our pool vernacular & start speaking totally like a Brit?
In tennis one can hit with top spin, underspin, combination spin, or 'flat'. I don't know what the Brits call any of them. In ping pong, I believe all of the spins are called 'english'. If I'm spinning a cue ball, I'm putting english on it even if I'm drawing it straight back with no 'side' english. One could simply call it 'draw' but I do not think it would be wrong or incorrect to also call it 'draw english'.
I understand that some instructors want to & do differentiate & only refer to side spin as english. I doubt that I will be conforming to that line any time soon. To me anything not dead center & straight up on the vertical axis involves english. (To me, even a force follow is 'top spin'.)
With some more info from the OP, I'm sure many of us will be able to figure it out & be helpful.
Best Regards,
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RJ:
You either think too much "into" replies to your posts, or else you're thin-skinned. I never said that we should adopt UK terminology or semantics. Rather, I was just being helpful in case the readership didn't understand what he meant by "side," and, at the same time, gave you a friendly poke at your AZB handle -- which I *thought* you'd recognize.
Take 'er easy, o-fiery-one.
-Sean
RJ:
You either think too much "into" replies to your posts, or else you're thin-skinned. I never said that we should adopt UK terminology or semantics. Rather, I was just being helpful in case the readership didn't understand what he meant by "side," and, at the same time, gave you a friendly poke at your AZB handle -- which I *thought* you'd recognize.
Take 'er easy, o-fiery-one.
-Sean
Sean,
Thanks again,
There is no tone or inflection in text. Mis-communication is surely lurking between every key stroke, on both sides of the airways. Clarification is never a bad thing, I think.
Best Regards,
With the older, read that, thicker cloth, it was more like playing on a golf green with grass. Have you ever noticed how grass grows in a direction? It is the same with high quality billiard cloth. Anyways, if you were shooting with the nap, you were of a speed, shooting against the nap you were much slower.Against the grain, held many problems, not just skids. Jim S.
Oh no sir. I would aim at the full ball and hit outside english and lit it swerve to the correct angle to pocket the ball. Of course, this was by no means a hard stroke. Now, when I line up the same spot shot on simonis with outside english, it doesn't swerve enough to even get back to a full ball hit....
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
Is it the same shaft as 20 years ago? My guess is you are playing with a different shaft with lower deflection. Those deflection type shots just don't aim or work the same with different shafts.