CNC Mill

CamposCues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi,
I'm starting to look at setting up a mill for doing inlays. I don't have the money to go all out on a Cuemonster or Align-rite...I wish I did. Anyway, I just thought I'd see if there is anyone out there who is thinking of moving up to one of the high dollar CNCs and is thinking of selling their old CNC machine for a reasonable price. If anyone is, PM me with specifics.
Thanks,
Chris
 
You might want to reconsider! The align-rite is really not that expensive, and will do just about anything you want it to. You may end up having a lot of trouble getting something cheaper to work right, and spend more than you bargained for in the end.
Even building one yourself, you can run into a lot of headaches, and might spend months getting it to run right. (I know someone that did this)
Good luck, and if you need any advice, feel free to ask me.
 
Cnc

Sheldon said:
You might want to reconsider! The align-rite is really not that expensive, and will do just about anything you want it to. You may end up having a lot of trouble getting something cheaper to work right, and spend more than you bargained for in the end.
Even building one yourself, you can run into a lot of headaches, and might spend months getting it to run right. (I know someone that did this)
Good luck, and if you need any advice, feel free to ask me.

How much do the Align-Rites run? Right now I just build cues for a hobby becaue my day job (programmer) gets boring. Most of my cues I give to friends or keep. For some reason I build a cue and get attached to it...not a good way to make money.

Down the road when I get more serious about it I plan to get or build something more elaborate. Right now I only have a couple thousand at my disposal. I know I can set up a new Taig with a rotary table for about that but I just thought I'd check to see if there was something someone has already set up that they were looking to get rid of.

I also want to explore building one my self, so I plan to take apart and explore the first one I get. Building and tinkering are just in my nature. I don't want to do this with something too expensive.
 
CamposCues said:
How much do the Align-Rites run? Right now I just build cues for a hobby becaue my day job (programmer) gets boring. Most of my cues I give to friends or keep. For some reason I build a cue and get attached to it...not a good way to make money.

Down the road when I get more serious about it I plan to get or build something more elaborate. Right now I only have a couple thousand at my disposal. I know I can set up a new Taig with a rotary table for about that but I just thought I'd check to see if there was something someone has already set up that they were looking to get rid of.

I also want to explore building one my self, so I plan to take apart and explore the first one I get. Building and tinkering are just in my nature. I don't want to do this with something too expensive.

I cant say for sure since I got mine several years ago, I paid 10K for it.
Sounds like you are on the right track, I hope you can find something. :)
 
Align-rite is coming out with a smaller machine, specifically for doing inlays. Last I heard it was supposed to be in the 5k to 6k range. I have one of their older machines and don't know what I would do without it. From my own experience I wasted a lot of time and money trying to cut corners and find an alternative. If you are a programmer you already have a big head start! Good luck.
 
Cnc

dunkelcustomcue said:
Align-rite is coming out with a smaller machine, specifically for doing inlays. Last I heard it was supposed to be in the 5k to 6k range. I have one of their older machines and don't know what I would do without it. From my own experience I wasted a lot of time and money trying to cut corners and find an alternative. If you are a programmer you already have a big head start! Good luck.


Yeah, I do have somewhat of a head start working with software all day. I have some cad software that I already have a pretty good handle on. I have downloaded some free trials of several different programs. I don't have a mill but I had a cue maker buddy kind enough to test and use some of my inlay designs. I can create a pocket and inlay just fine.

Besides the fact that my wife would end my life if I spent 10K on a "toy" right now, I guess I don't want to just have a CNC mill that is set up just for cues (at this stage) because I want to use it for machining other tooling and innovations I have created that will help me in different areas of cue making. I currently have a deluxe Cuesmith which has worked great. I have a ton of designs I've drawn up for attachments, improvements, and tooling that will make this lathe work a lot better for me. It's too expensive (on my budget) to have a shop mill them out and hell I've already built a program to do it.

I have a heck of an imagination and some good ideas. I guess I just lack a mill, some material, and tons of money :D
 
CamposCues said:
Hi,
I'm starting to look at setting up a mill for doing inlays. I don't have the money to go all out on a Cuemonster or Align-rite...I wish I did. Anyway, I just thought I'd see if there is anyone out there who is thinking of moving up to one of the high dollar CNCs and is thinking of selling their old CNC machine for a reasonable price. If anyone is, PM me with specifics.
Thanks,
Chris

I use a Taig 4 axis CNC mill for my inlays. I think it is in the $2700 range. So far it has done everything that I needed.
 
Cnc

Mase said:
I use a Taig 4 axis CNC mill for my inlays. I think it is in the $2700 range. So far it has done everything that I needed.

That is probably what I'll end up going with. I've seen some pretty good deals on them. Did you just make a rack out of some extrusion to put the rotary table and tailstock on? Do you use the factory spindle or did you mount some type of high speed spindle on it?
 
CamposCues said:
That is probably what I'll end up going with. I've seen some pretty good deals on them. Did you just make a rack out of some extrusion to put the rotary table and tailstock on? Do you use the factory spindle or did you mount some type of high speed spindle on it?

It just fits on the table. Bolts right up with no problem. You would probably want to order the longer bed and you will need to get a tailstock or something to hold the other end of the wood. It will only handle about 12' so I had a slide made that bolts to the bed and hangs out over the end. I can do about 16" with it.
 
Cnc

Mase said:
It just fits on the table. Bolts right up with no problem. You would probably want to order the longer bed and you will need to get a tailstock or something to hold the other end of the wood. It will only handle about 12' so I had a slide made that bolts to the bed and hangs out over the end. I can do about 16" with it.

I just planned to get a 40" piece of extrusion (http://www.macrondynamics.com/e-40-80.htm) and mounting a rotary table and tailstock, probably a sherline because it's light weight and I'm not real sure how much weight a taig axis can pull since it's on a dove tail instead of some linear bearing system. Again, I've never owned a Taig or any cnc so I'm just guessing on the safe side on some of this. I then plan on devising some way to slide and fix the extrusion on the taig table T-slots depending on what part of the cue I'm working on. This way I can have the fully assembled cue between centers and can just slide and clamp down as needed. Does anyone know if this extrusion will be rigid enough to maintain accuracy??? Like I said this is just the idea I have in my head, by all means if this won't work let me know, so I don't blow the tiny little bit of money that I have to spend :)

I was going to use my porter cable as a spindle until I can afford something quieter...much quieter. I've heard somewhere that if you don't have a spindle with 20k rpms or more that you can go through a lot of bits or you have to cut at a really slow pace.
 
CamposCues said:
I just planned to get a 40" piece of extrusion (http://www.macrondynamics.com/e-40-80.htm) and mounting a rotary table and tailstock, probably a sherline because it's light weight and I'm not real sure how much weight a taig axis can pull since it's on a dove tail instead of some linear bearing system. Again, I've never owned a Taig or any cnc so I'm just guessing on the safe side on some of this. I then plan on devising some way to slide and fix the extrusion on the taig table T-slots depending on what part of the cue I'm working on. This way I can have the fully assembled cue between centers and can just slide and clamp down as needed. Does anyone know if this extrusion will be rigid enough to maintain accuracy??? Like I said this is just the idea I have in my head, by all means if this won't work let me know, so I don't blow the tiny little bit of money that I have to spend :)

I was going to use my porter cable as a spindle until I can afford something quieter...much quieter. I've heard somewhere that if you don't have a spindle with 20k rpms or more that you can go through a lot of bits or you have to cut at a really slow pace.


My first CNC for cues was a Sherline. Although I did some very nice cues with it I probably ruined 1 out of every 4 cues that were built. The gibbs for travel are way to short and their X and Y drive screws with the brass adjustments are totally unacceptable. The nuts for the drive screws would last for about two cues. I also used a P/C laminate trimmer but this also caused much aggravation as the weight of the mount would put the Z axis in a bind and loose steps. I ended up making my own X-axis table and changed all the drive screws to 0 backlash units and had to redesign the machine to use them. Also, when the jig that holds the cue is mounted to the table it must be balanced or the gibbs will bind and the table will not move. I had a real Rube Goldberg set-up with a pulley and a bucket of weights to counter balance the jig. Mine worked but you had to sit next to it anytime it was running, without any hearing protection, and your finger on the escape button so that when you heard the stepper motors loosing steps you could stop the machine before it started cutting in the wrong place. With the little stepper motors and using a 1/32 end mill, sometimes I had 8 hours of cutting pockets on a cue and then you couldn't hear for two or three days.
I bought the machine used for 2,000.00 and probably put another 1,500.00 in it and it was still horrible. The main reason I bought itwas because it had AHHA software, the same as Sherm, so I knew he could help me with the learning process. I bought Sherlines CNC radial table for around 800.00 and it works great for a fourth axis. I can run it off it's own computer or put it in slave mode and run it off my reguler operating program.
A couple of years ago, I started reading tutorials on CNC on the internet, went to an exotic metal scrap yard and bought metal I thought I could use, got on e-bay and bought ball-screws, linear rails and bearings, large stepper motors and most all else that I needed and built my own Gantry CNC system.
The travall on my machine is 34" X 34" with a 15" Z travall. It's four axis, has Thomson precision 1" ball-screws with zero backlash, 1000 inch ounce Pacific scientific steppers, Parker drivers, NSK linear rails and bearings and a Precise 0 to 75,000 rpm variable speed precision grinder mounted to it. All parts in my machine are top quality and were made for heavy industrial use. I built my own power supply and used Parker drivers for dependability and long service.
I already had my cad/cam software, the AHHA cnc software for running the machine and the Sherline fourth axis so I never had to buy that stuff. Everything else that i bought on e-bay and the scrap yard to get this machine running came to less than 3,500.00. It is an extremly accurite machine I might add.
If I was going to build this again I believe I would take a different approach. Instead of building a Gantry system from scratch I would watch e-bay for a verticle CNC mill who's electronics have gone south. Bridgeports and other Verticle CNC machines have BOSS or one of the other industrial operating systems and when something happens to them they are extremely expensive to fix. They go off on e-bay all the time for 2,500.00 to 4,000.00. get one of these, strip all the electronics and put on a PC system for a fraction of the costs. They already have linear bearings, ball-screws and motors. You end up with a machine that is 10 times stronger and better built than the align-rite for less than half the money.
Dick
 
My CNC Experience

I just returned last night from Blud’s place (Bludworth Cues) after being there for a week. I am relatively new at this hobby of building cues. I exchanged messages with Blud here on AZ Billiards and then went out to see his CNC machine over a month ago. I looked at a few CNC machines and then decided on his CNC machine. Dollar for dollar I thought his machine was much better than the Align-rite CNC mill built on a $600 wood lathe.

The other valuable part of the deal with Blud was that I got hands on training with the purchase of the machine. I was totally impressed with his and Donald’s (his son) willingness to teach me whatever I wanted to learn. They did not seem to hold back "trade secrets”. They opened their shop to me and took me completely thru their cue building process and of course the ops on the CNC machine I bought. I learned tons of tricks that will surely help me avoid headaches.

There was more….. They put me up in their cabin for the week (except on the weekend when it was rented then they gave me a bedroom in their house).

Over-all I would rate the experience as excellent. Before you buy a CNC I would check out what they have to offer.
 
CamposCues said:
I just planned to get a 40" piece of extrusion (http://www.macrondynamics.com/e-40-80.htm) and mounting a rotary table and tailstock, probably a sherline because it's light weight and I'm not real sure how much weight a taig axis can pull since it's on a dove tail instead of some linear bearing system. Again, I've never owned a Taig or any cnc so I'm just guessing on the safe side on some of this. I then plan on devising some way to slide and fix the extrusion on the taig table T-slots depending on what part of the cue I'm working on. This way I can have the fully assembled cue between centers and can just slide and clamp down as needed. Does anyone know if this extrusion will be rigid enough to maintain accuracy??? Like I said this is just the idea I have in my head, by all means if this won't work let me know, so I don't blow the tiny little bit of money that I have to spend :)

I was going to use my porter cable as a spindle until I can afford something quieter...much quieter. I've heard somewhere that if you don't have a spindle with 20k rpms or more that you can go through a lot of bits or you have to cut at a really slow pace.



That stuff is pretty solid for what it is. I have about 6 lenths of 80/20 longest being about 60 inches, and that stuff has some weight. I know the shipping was high enough on it. The pieces I have look just like the one in the link. they are about the same size as a 2x4, but alot heavier. I have a bunch of ebay slides and stuff also, so been thinking about a gantry style myself for a while. If nothing else it would make a great machine frame for that. I built My panto from simular parts, and it's pretty tight for a handbuilt machine. CNC seems like a big jump for me at the time, and with limited time & budget, I have put it on the back burner for now. I'll probably be alright through the mechanical part, but the software and controler may take some time. you have one up on me there.

Good Luck with it.

Greg C
 
Cnc

rhncue said:
My first CNC for cues was a Sherline. Although I did some very nice cues with it I probably ruined 1 out of every 4 cues that were built. The gibbs for travel are way to short and their X and Y drive screws with the brass adjustments are totally unacceptable. The nuts for the drive screws would last for about two cues. I also used a P/C laminate trimmer but this also caused much aggravation as the weight of the mount would put the Z axis in a bind and loose steps. I ended up making my own X-axis table and changed all the drive screws to 0 backlash units and had to redesign the machine to use them. Also, when the jig that holds the cue is mounted to the table it must be balanced or the gibbs will bind and the table will not move. I had a real Rube Goldberg set-up with a pulley and a bucket of weights to counter balance the jig. Mine worked but you had to sit next to it anytime it was running, without any hearing protection, and your finger on the escape button so that when you heard the stepper motors loosing steps you could stop the machine before it started cutting in the wrong place. With the little stepper motors and using a 1/32 end mill, sometimes I had 8 hours of cutting pockets on a cue and then you couldn't hear for two or three days.
I bought the machine used for 2,000.00 and probably put another 1,500.00 in it and it was still horrible. The main reason I bought itwas because it had AHHA software, the same as Sherm, so I knew he could help me with the learning process. I bought Sherlines CNC radial table for around 800.00 and it works great for a fourth axis. I can run it off it's own computer or put it in slave mode and run it off my reguler operating program.
A couple of years ago, I started reading tutorials on CNC on the internet, went to an exotic metal scrap yard and bought metal I thought I could use, got on e-bay and bought ball-screws, linear rails and bearings, large stepper motors and most all else that I needed and built my own Gantry CNC system.
The travall on my machine is 34" X 34" with a 15" Z travall. It's four axis, has Thomson precision 1" ball-screws with zero backlash, 1000 inch ounce Pacific scientific steppers, Parker drivers, NSK linear rails and bearings and a Precise 0 to 75,000 rpm variable speed precision grinder mounted to it. All parts in my machine are top quality and were made for heavy industrial use. I built my own power supply and used Parker drivers for dependability and long service.
I already had my cad/cam software, the AHHA cnc software for running the machine and the Sherline fourth axis so I never had to buy that stuff. Everything else that i bought on e-bay and the scrap yard to get this machine running came to less than 3,500.00. It is an extremly accurite machine I might add.
If I was going to build this again I believe I would take a different approach. Instead of building a Gantry system from scratch I would watch e-bay for a verticle CNC mill who's electronics have gone south. Bridgeports and other Verticle CNC machines have BOSS or one of the other industrial operating systems and when something happens to them they are extremely expensive to fix. They go off on e-bay all the time for 2,500.00 to 4,000.00. get one of these, strip all the electronics and put on a PC system for a fraction of the costs. They already have linear bearings, ball-screws and motors. You end up with a machine that is 10 times stronger and better built than the align-rite for less than half the money.
Dick

Yeah, I looked at the Sherline and it did not look robust enough for what I want to do. The larger Taig has a little more travel, 12", I think. The axis using dove tails is what worries me. That could make balance an issue like you said. I may have to hold out for something with a linear rail system or buy the Taig to get an understanding of how everything really works and then use that to help build something that would be more tailored to my needs. Like I said, I love building and tinkering although you wouldn't know it by all the cuss words streaming out of my garage when things aren't going well :mad:
 
CNC Software

Cue Crazy said:
That stuff is pretty solid for what it is. I have about 6 lenths of 80/20 longest being about 60 inches, and that stuff has some weight. I know the shipping was high enough on it. The pieces I have look just like the one in the link. they are about the same size as a 2x4, but alot heavier. I have a bunch of ebay slides and stuff also, so been thinking about a gantry style myself for a while. If nothing else it would make a great machine frame for that. I built My panto from simular parts, and it's pretty tight for a handbuilt machine. CNC seems like a big jump for me at the time, and with limited time & budget, I have put it on the back burner for now. I'll probably be alright through the mechanical part, but the software and controler may take some time. you have one up on me there.

Good Luck with it.

Greg C

Yep, new software can be intimidating. I spend half the time at my dayjob coaxing people into accepting and using new software...man some people hate change!

The best bet is to actually read some of the manual before just jumping in and going wild. Use the help files, they can often help solve the little problems. If you have a cue builder buddy that runs a particular type of software download the free trial (most offer this) of the same thing and try to figure it out before you ever even get a mill. Then it won't feel so overwhelming once you get a machine. This is what I have done. Of course, I still plan on running into problems, getting stumped, and probably having to ask someone with experience some questions but it won't be as bad.
 
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