Comparison of linen wraps between brands

[Lowell]

I know that Meucci's are coated, which I actually like because you get a linen look with a wrapless feel.

But as for the other cue companies (Viking, McDermott, Pechauer, Schon, etc.), how do their linen wraps vary?

I certainly prefer them to be smooth rather than course.

 

[couldnthinkof01]

Joss, Schon, and McDermott all feel about the same to me. Smooth.
Can't comment on the others

 

[skor]

you can always get them smoother.
Just need very fine sand paper and wax paper.
They usually get fuzzy after cleaning and need to be smoothed back to normal.

 

[RAMIII]

Mezz and Exceed have the smoothest linen wraps I've found on a production cue. They rival a Szams Penn linen or 9lb Cortland linen which is very difficult to find.

 

[spktur]

Mezz and Exceed have the smoothest linen wraps I've found on a production cue. They rival a Szams Penn linen or 9lb Cortland linen which is very difficult to find.

It's not 9lb Cortland but is #9 or 9 thread Cortland with a 27lb test.

 

[VarmintKong]

Is it a question of workmanship or material? Obviously workmanship is always a thing, but I don’t know spit about where wraps are sourced.

My best friend’s grandpa and my dad used to make fishing rods back in the day. That’s the Cortland that Spkltur is talking about, right? No longer available for the masses.

So what is it?

My wife had a wrap get funky. She likes blue and green. I hit up a fella who does wraps and told him that I wanted a green with blue speck because I figured there’s a factory making rolls of it by the mile. I didn’t know it wasn’t a thing.

It seems to be the same amount of variations on a theme no matter where you look. Are these all made by the same 8 year old in Chinese Taipei, or are there a number of competitors who refuse to do anything differently?

 

[WildWing]

Is it a question of workmanship or material? Obviously workmanship is always a thing, but I don’t know spit about where wraps are sourced.

My best friend’s grandpa and my dad used to make fishing rods back in the day. That’s the Cortland that Spkltur is talking about, right? No longer available for the masses.

So what is it?

My wife had a wrap get funky. She likes blue and green. I hit up a fella who does wraps and told him that I wanted a green with blue speck because I figured there’s a factory making rolls of it by the mile. I didn’t know it wasn’t a thing.

It seems to be the same amount of variations on a theme no matter where you look. Are these all made by the same 8 year old in Chinese Taipei, or are there a number of competitors who refuse to do anything differently?

Cortland is no longer available, period. They stopped producing linen in favor of Dacron about 1975, so cuemakers have what they have.

Fast forward, Blue Mountain in North Carolina made a very good linen, and their light green strand was a very good match for Cortland. No longer available, the factory burned down, and wasn't reconstructed. So, cuemakers have what they have.

Believe most linen today comes from China. Your judgement as to whether it's good or not. I've heard rumors that somebody is trying to make better linen, country unknown. These rumors always circulate.

 

[VarmintKong]

Believe most linen today comes from China. Your judgement as to whether it's good or not. I've heard rumors that somebody is trying to make better linen, country unknown. These rumors always circulate.

K Kay! I don’t trust my own judgement. Maybe we could measure the childrens fingers when they thread the spindles. I feel like shorter fingers will result in a tighter wrap. What do yo all think?

How about stacked leather. Are we with it or against it?

 

[WildWing]

K Kay! I don’t trust my own judgement. Maybe we could measure the childrens fingers when they thread the spindles. I feel like shorter fingers will result in a tighter wrap. What do yo all think?

How about stacked leather. Are we with it or against it?

Well, not really. The subject was about linen, which Cortland did about the best. They're not doing it anymore, and the machines are not available anymore. There were some who tried to duplicate it, but it didn't really work. If you have old Cortland or Penn, put it on some cues, otherwise it will probably dry rot. Nothing lasts forever.

 

[Chili Palmer]

Well, not really. The subject was about linen, which Cortland did about the best. They're not doing it anymore, and the machines are not available anymore. There were some who tried to duplicate it, but it didn't really work. If you have old Cortland or Penn, put it on some cues, otherwise it will probably dry rot. Nothing lasts forever.

Being a fan of Cortland Irish Linen (my two players, Huebler's, have original Cortland wraps) I went down a rabbit hole a few years back. Although it's called "Irish" linen, it was actually made by the Cortland Line Company out of New York. It's made from the fibers of the Flax plant and spun in a 3x3 strand twist, current linen is spun in a 2x3 format, the 3x3, I'm assuming, is why it's called #9. The 3x3 makes a more round thread and creates a more rounded/smooth texture. I'm not sure why, but the original machinery to make the 3x3 was dismantled/destroyed - or otherwise - out of service. In the fishing world it is sometimes known as Cuttyhunk, you can occasionally find that for sale (example below) but I'm not sure what the difference is between the two. Link below is called "4 square", not sure what that means but it tells me it's not 3x3. Actually, since it's 54lb test I would guess it's spun 4x4 i.e. each strand is made up of 4 smaller strands, then 4 of those are spun to make the line.

Cuttyhunk:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/336245714044?mkcid=1&mkrid=706-53473-19255-0&siteid=0&customid=link&campid=5335988529&toolid=20001&mkevt=1

More fun facts:

There are native flax plants in New Zealand that could/would be great for what we call Cortland Irish Linen. However, you need to learn how to spin it into thread, then you need the machine to twist it in a 3x3 format.

DuPont created synthetic line in 1938 which ultimately ended the flax linen reign.

The last time I saw an authentic roll of Cortland Irish Linen for a pool cue (and just enough for 1 cue) it was about $200, that was 6-8 years ago.

And on a side note: back in the late 80's my father gave me an Adam cue that had a two color wrap, bottom and top 2" (approximately) were white and the middle was black. I've often thought about finding old cues with torn up Cortland wrap and using the scraps to do the same thing. There's also no reason you couldn't find the same color to make a full wrap?

If you feel like making your own here are a couple of links on how to spin Flax.

 

[Chili Palmer]

Well, not really. The subject was about linen, which Cortland did about the best. They're not doing it anymore, and the machines are not available anymore. There were some who tried to duplicate it, but it didn't really work. If you have old Cortland or Penn, put it on some cues, otherwise it will probably dry rot. Nothing lasts forever.

I also remember reading something about Cortland gets tighter and stronger if it gets wet. I wonder if getting it wet would help preserve it. I'd have to look into it more, again, but that rings a bell.

 

[Bavafongoul]

All my cues would have Cortland Linen but my last custom had to go with gray leather because #9 wouldn’t have looked right with its design and veneer colors. I make sure to clean my wraps with steam and restore the smooth finish
by glass burnishing the wrap.it literally can take a couple of 90 mins. To 2 hrs. to get it just right but 10 mins a night is all it takes. I do 2 cue wraps at a time and meanwhile I’ll just play with a different cue.

I’m actually a little more impatient and maniacal like about my cues so I tend to hit it a lot harder than that. In 2 nights I’ll get both wraps done and yes, my hands and arm hurt afterward but I have my cues back for at least another 18 mths
before I have to do all the wraps. My Scruggs wrap gets cleaned every 7-8 months because it gets played the most .

 

[jay helfert]

Being a fan of Cortland Irish Linen (my two players, Huebler's, have original Cortland wraps) I went down a rabbit hole a few years back. Although it's called "Irish" linen, it was actually made by the Cortland Line Company out of New York. It's made from the fibers of the Flax plant and spun in a 3x3 strand twist, current linen is spun in a 2x3 format, the 3x3, I'm assuming, is why it's called #9. The 3x3 makes a more round thread and creates a more rounded/smooth texture. I'm not sure why, but the original machinery to make the 3x3 was dismantled/destroyed - or otherwise - out of service. In the fishing world it is sometimes known as Cuttyhunk, you can occasionally find that for sale (example below) but I'm not sure what the difference is between the two. Link below is called "4 square", not sure what that means but it tells me it's not 3x3. Actually, since it's 54lb test I would guess it's spun 4x4 i.e. each strand is made up of 4 smaller strands, then 4 of those are spun to make the line.

Cuttyhunk:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/336245714044?mkcid=1&mkrid=706-53473-19255-0&siteid=0&customid=link&campid=5335988529&toolid=20001&mkevt=1

More fun facts:

There are native flax plants in New Zealand that could/would be great for what we call Cortland Irish Linen. However, you need to learn how to spin it into thread, then you need the machine to twist it in a 3x3 format.

DuPont created synthetic line in 1938 which ultimately ended the flax linen reign.

The last time I saw an authentic roll of Cortland Irish Linen for a pool cue (and just enough for 1 cue) it was about $200, that was 6-8 years ago.

And on a side note: back in the late 80's my father gave me an Adam cue that had a two color wrap, bottom and top 2" (approximately) were white and the middle was black. I've often thought about finding old cues with torn up Cortland wrap and using the scraps to do the same thing. There's also no reason you couldn't find the same color to make a full wrap?

If you feel like making your own here are a couple of links on how to spin Flax.

Just like the've been doing on yarn spinning wheels for hundreds of years. Years ago I watched the women in Nepal weaving all kinds of threads on wheels that looked like they had been around forever. Fascinating!

 

[mikemosconi]

A coated wrap like Meucci is an entirely different feel than any exposed linen wrap. So if you like a coated wrap - you would not want an exposed linen wrap- this is an apple and orange comparison issue.
As far as linen wrap comparisons - every cue maker and most production makers has their own wrap supplier and their own final end product feel on the cue itself.

 

[WildWing]

I also remember reading something about Cortland gets tighter and stronger if it gets wet. I wonder if getting it wet would help preserve it. I'd have to look into it more, again, but that rings a bell.

It's funny you mention getting the linen wet. I can turn an average piece of green spot linen to look and feel like Cortland by getting it a bit wet. Never soaking it, as there's glue underneath the wrap. I make a solution of one part bleach to ten parts of warm water, wring out a wash cloth, and go over the wrap, time after time, letting it dry completely each time, never soaking it. When I think I've got the look down, then there's the finishing. Some wraps respond fine to just a glass rod rub, others need extra fine sandpaper to finish it off.

But Cortland, I don't think I would ever put any water on it. I would just make sure to get my hands on it, play it now and then.

I also wouldn't get an old spool of Cortland wet. If it's really old, it's dry rot, and no amount of water will bring it to life.

 

[Chili Palmer]

It's funny you mention getting the linen wet. I can turn an average piece of green spot linen to look and feel like Cortland by getting it a bit wet. Never soaking it, as there's glue underneath the wrap. I make a solution of one part bleach to ten parts of warm water, wring out a wash cloth, and go over the wrap, time after time, letting it dry completely each time, never soaking it. When I think I've got the look down, then there's the finishing. Some wraps respond fine to just a glass rod rub, others need extra fine sandpaper to finish it off.

But Cortland, I don't think I would ever put any water on it. I would just make sure to get my hands on it, play it now and then.

I also wouldn't get an old spool of Cortland wet. If it's really old, it's dry rot, and no amount of water will bring it to life.

I've had a few wraps that weren't Cortland, a Ned Morris, a Dzuricky, and a McDermott. I didn't have them long enough to worry about cleaning them. Due using a stroke slip extensively, I prefer a little rougher wrap, a smooth wrap is not good. I actually sent my Ned Morris to Ned in California (then rode my Harley to California and met him at his house), when we were done doing what it was sent there for, and after I left, he decided to smooth the wrap as a courtesy - it came back smooth as glass and I hated it. Ended up selling it. I have; however, cleaned my original Huebler. Usually, I just used a damp towel and wipe it down, basically I act like the wrap is a thread on a bolt and just twist towel down the wrap. Back in 2018 though, I did get my wrap wetter than normal (not soaked, but definetley moist) and have had zero issues since. Both my wraps are a little dirty but that doesn't bother me.

 

[spktur]

Being a fan of Cortland Irish Linen (my two players, Huebler's, have original Cortland wraps) I went down a rabbit hole a few years back. Although it's called "Irish" linen, it was actually made by the Cortland Line Company out of New York. It's made from the fibers of the Flax plant and spun in a 3x3 strand twist, current linen is spun in a 2x3 format, the 3x3, I'm assuming, is why it's called #9. The 3x3 makes a more round thread and creates a more rounded/smooth texture. I'm not sure why, but the original machinery to make the 3x3 was dismantled/destroyed - or otherwise - out of service. In the fishing world it is sometimes known as Cuttyhunk, you can occasionally find that for sale (example below) but I'm not sure what the difference is between the two. Link below is called "4 square", not sure what that means but it tells me it's not 3x3. Actually, since it's 54lb test I would guess it's spun 4x4 i.e. each strand is made up of 4 smaller strands, then 4 of those are spun to make the line.

Cuttyhunk:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/336245714044?mkcid=1&mkrid=706-53473-19255-0&siteid=0&customid=link&campid=5335988529&toolid=20001&mkevt=1

More fun facts:

There are native flax plants in New Zealand that could/would be great for what we call Cortland Irish Linen. However, you need to learn how to spin it into thread, then you need the machine to twist it in a 3x3 format.

DuPont created synthetic line in 1938 which ultimately ended the flax linen reign.

The last time I saw an authentic roll of Cortland Irish Linen for a pool cue (and just enough for 1 cue) it was about $200, that was 6-8 years ago.

And on a side note: back in the late 80's my father gave me an Adam cue that had a two color wrap, bottom and top 2" (approximately) were white and the middle was black. I've often thought about finding old cues with torn up Cortland wrap and using the scraps to do the same thing. There's also no reason you couldn't find the same color to make a full wrap?

If you feel like making your own here are a couple of links on how to spin Flax.

What you show is a spool of #24 54lb test rope twist style cuttyhunk instead of the braid type line that Cortland used. This is how it was braided

also keep in mind all Cortland was not labeled Cortland as they would also due contract manufacturing under other brand names like most manufacturers. I bought a 300 yard spool of Abercrombie and Fitch a few years ago that was very obviously Cortland.

 

[Chili Palmer]

What you show is a spool of #24 54lb test rope twist style cuttyhunk instead of the braid type line that Cortland used. This is how it was braided

Roger, when you look up close you can see it's not that smooth. Thanks for the info.

also keep in mind all Cortland was not labeled Cortland as they would also due contract manufacturing under other brand names like most manufacturers. I bought a 300 yard spool of Abercrombie and Fitch a few years ago that was very obviously Cortland.

Out of curiosity, how old is the AF cordd?