Components Necessary to Become a Pro Level Pool Player?

[howlieboy9]

It's like people seriously don't read and think that a few anecdotal stories proves there is no such thing as natural talent.

Of course, any average person can improve over time given that they put in the work, and I'm happy to hear that you have improved.

What about the guys that have been playing as long as you have, but haven't practiced nearly as much, and yet can still give you the 7? Those are the players with natural talent. A higher level of hand/eye coordination and spatial awareness.

A lot of people are talking about natural talent. It is not required. At all. Just because someone picks up the game quickly doesn’t mean that it’s impossible for another person to become a pro if he doesn’t. It’s not where you start but where you finish. It will take longer for some. But to put a cap on human potential in a game that doesn’t require strength, speed, or IQ is just wrong.

Not being cocky or argumentative but I honestly don’t know anyone that has played as short a time as me that can give me the 7 without playing everyday. I would be super impressed if I met that person. All the old guys ask for weight now and tell me I would be a below average player in the 80s and 90s. I have no frame of reference so I laugh and think maybe they’re right. But I doubt it.

I guess the reason why I had to chime in on this topic is because I can actually give an answer on this based on real life, not negative speculation (you either got it or ya don’t attitude) on one side or delusions of grandeur on the other. If you didn’t become the player you wanted to be it had NOTHING to do with god given talent, or eyes, or hand-eye coordination. It had to do with a lack of hard work. It sucks setting up the same shot and shooting it for 2-3 straight hours. 20 minutes feels like 12 hours. It’s brutal and most people don’t have what it takes to do it. Let alone wake up the next day and do it again.

We all know a 100 players who haven’t improved in 10-20 years. They play all the time. I guarantee you they don’t practice.

 

[JazzyJeff87]

A lot of people are talking about natural talent. It is not required. At all. Just because someone picks up the game quickly doesn’t mean that it’s impossible for another person to become a pro if he doesn’t. It’s not where you start but where you finish. It will take longer for some. But to put a cap on human potential in a game that doesn’t require strength, speed, or IQ is just wrong.

Not being cocky or argumentative but I honestly don’t know anyone that has played as short a time as me that can give me the 7 without playing everyday. I would be super impressed if I met that person. All the old guys ask for weight now and tell me I would be a below average player in the 80s and 90s. I have no frame of reference so I laugh and think maybe they’re right. But I doubt it.

I guess the reason why I had to chime in on this topic is because I can actually give an answer on this based on real life, not negative speculation (you either got it or ya don’t attitude) on one side or delusions of grandeur on the other. If you didn’t become the player you wanted to be it had NOTHING to do with god given talent, or eyes, or hand-eye coordination. It had to do with a lack of hard work. It sucks setting up the same shot and shooting it for 2-3 straight hours. 20 minutes feels like 12 hours. It’s brutal and most people don’t have what it takes to do it. Let alone wake up the next day and do it again.

We all know a 100 players who haven’t improved in 10-20 years. They play all the time. I guarantee you they don’t practice.

I don’t think anyone is saying what you think they’re saying. Some have said there is no such thing as “natural talent” which just isn’t true. Hard work can definitely overcome a lack of natural ability to a point. But someone who just naturally plays well and puts in ridiculous work will be an svb. Then there are uncoordinated people that may be a savant when it comes to math but will never play pro caliber pool even if they put in the hours.

The 2020 ghost challenge has just kicked off. Post up

 

[KenRobbins]

The 2020 ghost challenge has just kicked off. Post up

What's the reward? If he's good, then you'll be asking for a handicap if he's better than you if you ever match up. Let alone the reward of becoming a pro. The only reward I can think of is self accomplishment. A sponsor isn't going to hook you up with a nice house or cars and a retirement plan.

 

[ChrisinNC]

Howlieboy9 - To clarify on your original earlier post #70 on this thread, you do or you do not think you have a natural talent / gift for pool? If you feel you do, how could you possibly know how good a player without that gift could get, even if they do work as hard on their game as absolutely possible - say for 2,000 hours a year for 5 years?

 

[KRJ]

I don’t think anyone is saying what you think they’re saying. Some have said there is no such thing as “natural talent” which just isn’t true. Hard work can definitely overcome a lack of natural ability to a point. But someone who just naturally plays well and puts in ridiculous work will be an svb. Then there are uncoordinated people that may be a savant when it comes to math but will never play pro caliber pool even if they put in the hours.

The 2020 ghost challenge has just kicked off. Post up

I agree with your post. Just like baseball, guys were playing since they were kids. The amount of training kids do today is crazy. Trust me, I know. There is 3 baseball academies in a 2 mile radius from my house. Top coaches, top facilities, etc.

There few that don't have talent and hard work can get by on some talen and a TON of hard work. Those are the guys that played in the minors for years, sometimes a decade, before they get the "call". They are the "grinders" of the baseball world. They do a lot of little things well.

They will never be all-stars, never win a batting title, some may never even be a starter, but there needs to be back ups for positions and those grinders fill that role for $500K a year (minimum salary for MLB). Do it well, and you can be a bench player making $4M a year. Still not a bad gig

 

[WildWing]

1. Natural talent.
2. Just the right amount of practice and competition.

Number 1 is the most important.

All the best,
WW

 

[trinacria]

the pros practice like theyre in the final of the biggest tournaments. practice with purpose makes all pros in all professions either good, great or SVB level. professional dancers spend many years in front of a mirror in their room looking like an asshole before they get to the point where they practice like a pro. if your mentality is like Iverson, youll never get to that next level, no matter how talented. some people are born with it, they pick up on the game naturally, but if you think earl, Efren, mizerak, SVB or any legendary pro didn't spend their days and nights getting that one shot right, youre mistaken. and also the time and money to practice, your home table with ****ed up cloth and one type of environment wont do it.

 

[DecentShot]

Talent and hard work.

 

[JazzyJeff87]

What's the reward? If he's good, then you'll be asking for a handicap if he's better than you if you ever match up. Let alone the reward of becoming a pro. The only reward I can think of is self accomplishment. A sponsor isn't going to hook you up with a nice house or cars and a retirement plan.

I never have asked for a spot, I just play the game. I’m just curious to see if this guy plays as good as he thinks. It’s possible he does and if so I like to see good pool.

 

[KenRobbins]

I never have asked for a spot, I just play the game. I’m just curious to see if this guy plays as good as he thinks. It’s possible he does and if so I like to see good pool.

I understand what you mean and my post was meant in general. The time, cost and sacrifice equal no reward. If matching up, the person with less time and sacrifice in the game will want a spot. That's where I was getting at, that's all.

 

[garczar]

At the end of the day, WHY? Why put in the effort to become ' pro' level? Seriously, you can make more money mowing yards. IMO pool is a good source of secondary $$. To depend on it to eat/live/pay bills is borderline insanity.

 

[JazzyJeff87]

I understand what you mean and my post was meant in general. The time, cost and sacrifice equal no reward. If matching up, the person with less time and sacrifice in the game will want a spot. That's where I was getting at, that's all.

Ah I see...well of course the reward is satisfaction! For me the better I play the more satisfying it is. So even with no plans of making money from pool, besides the random score keeping dollars that go round and round, I put a lot of my time and effort into pool strictly for my own sake. It’s my church, therapy, and meditation all rolled into one beautiful activity.

I wouldn’t recommend it to any man as a profession, the few who make it aren’t the type to take advice of that type anyway. Women I feel have a better chance at making some money in the game, through sponsorships or an accessories line or something else pool related. If they’re good looking and can play at 700+

 

[howlieboy9]

Howlieboy9 - To clarify on your original earlier post #70 on this thread, you do or you do not think you have a natural talent / gift for pool? If you feel you do, how could you possibly know how good a player without that gift could get, even if they do work as hard on their game as absolutely possible - say for 2,000 hours a year for 5 years?

I have no talent whatsoever. Just a product of hard work.

 

[BeiberLvr]

I have no talent whatsoever. Just a product of hard work.

And you'll never be as good as someone that has talent.

Sorry.

 

[ChrisinNC]

I have no talent whatsoever. Just a product of hard work.

I personally don’t think it’s possible for any player without a well above average natural gift for pool to ever achieve a skill level equivalent to a 700 or higher Fargo rating, regardless of how hard they work at it. As long as you don’t level off and keep improving, and that’s your dream, go for it.

 

[tableroll]

I read every post in this thread and while I agree with a lot of them, I'm amazed no one mentioned the mental side of the game.

I strongly believe you can train as long as you want, do all the drills right and work 10,000 hours on all your technical weak spots - if you have a natural tendency to doubt yourself (even a little) or be discouraged when bad luck strikes or maybe have a tendency to dwell on your mistakes then it can be like all your hard work was for nothing and no natural ability or hand/eye coordination talent will save you.

I think that if you do all the drills right, like you say, and work ten thousand hours on all your technical and mechanical weak spots, you will not have to worry about your mental game. Your precision and confidence will carry you over any mental obstacles. You really won't have any mental obstacles with all this confidence.

 

[tableroll]

Of course there is such a thing. How a person is built, the muscle and nerve structure, reflexes, hand to eye coordination and a hundred other things are traits we are born with. Just like a person can be particularly adept at doing complex math, learning new languages, singing, jumping high or almost any athletic endeavor.

Nobody is born able to play pool at a high level but we all have different traits that either limit or accelerate our ability to improve with hard work.

Sent from the future.

Saying someone has natural talent is an excuse for those who are not willing to put in the time to become as good as the one they claim has natural talent. I do not buy this natural talent idea. A 550 Fargo rated player who practices twice as much as a 650 rated Fargo player is practicing the same mistakes over and over. The 650 player is practicing correctly. Natural talent has nothing to do with it.

 

[logical]

Saying someone has natural talent is an excuse for those who are not willing to put in the time to become as good as the one they claim has natural talent. I do not buy this natural talent idea. A 550 Fargo rated player who practices twice as much as a 650 rated Fargo player is practicing the same mistakes over and over. The 650 player is practicing correctly. Natural talent has nothing to do with it.

I am not saying natural talent means you don't need to do the hard work to fully realize your potential. But there are clearly certain traits, both physical and psychological, that some people are born with that allow that learning curve to be more accelerated and yes, have a higher upper limit.

I would think it's accepted by anyone that this applies to great singers, painters, pianists, baseball pitchers and engineers. Pool isn't exceptional.

Just look at the vast differences in reading comprehension on display here every day. Nobody puts any effort to getting better at it so the differences are purely natural talent.

Sent from the future.

 

[JazzyJeff87]

I think that if you do all the drills right, like you say, and work ten thousand hours on all your technical and mechanical weak spots, you will not have to worry about your mental game. Your precision and confidence will carry you over any mental obstacles. You really won't have any mental obstacles with all this confidence.

That sounds good on paper but in real competition it can fall apart in a heartbeat. If you had someone train for 15 years by themselves to where they looked like Jayson Shaw playing the pro ghost, then give them an opponent and things will change.

The mental aspects of pool are real. Self doubt can creep in when your break isn’t working and your opponent is running racks then it starts snowballing and you’re dogging shots etc. The stronger you are mentally, the easier it is to handle these things. Mental toughness is something you can build over time as well but some are just wired differently, more intense and tough.

 

[Kevin Lindstrom]

For all of you who believe natural talent is not real. How do you explain several 18 year old players that have played for a couple of years vs me that has played for several decades that can easily kick my ass on the pool table. I would say that I am more dedicated to the game and practice and so on than them yet still they can crush me.