Contact During The Finishing Movement

[stljohnny]

Lately I've been noticing that my stroke feels quite a bit off; most apparent when I need to put a solid medium draw stroke on the ball. I swing straight enough, but there's no juice left on the ball after contact. I am 99% sure I'm hitting the CB after the 90 degree point, quite a bit late, based on the lack of power the CB has. I'm assuming that I'm hitting the CB during my slow-down/follow-through instead of at the proper point. My follow through brings my grip hand to my chest in most cases, so I don't think I'm stopping the stroke short - but I'm definitely not accelerating through the CB; more likely decelerating through it.

Is this most likely caused by lining up too far away from the CB, too long of a bridge or... what else? I keep changing both to find that sweet spot again, but neither has been terribly consistent, so I was wondering if there's a "traditional" simple cause to this.

Strangely when I need to super-draw the ball, I do pretty good, but my stance doesn't feel any different, so I'm not picking up on the minor differences.

 

[FranCrimi]

Lately I've been noticing that my stroke feels quite a bit off; most apparent when I need to put a solid medium draw stroke on the ball. I swing straight enough, but there's no juice left on the ball after contact. I am 99% sure I'm hitting the CB after the 90 degree point, quite a bit late, based on the lack of power the CB has. I'm assuming that I'm hitting the CB during my slow-down/follow-through instead of at the proper point. My follow through brings my grip hand to my chest in most cases, so I don't think I'm stopping the stroke short - but I'm definitely not accelerating through the CB; more likely decelerating through it.

Is this most likely caused by lining up too far away from the CB, too long of a bridge or... what else? I keep changing both to find that sweet spot again, but neither has been terribly consistent, so I was wondering if there's a "traditional" simple cause to this.

Strangely when I need to super-draw the ball, I do pretty good, but my stance doesn't feel any different, so I'm not picking up on the minor differences.

Very good observation, BTW. That's a tough one to pick up on. There are a number of possibilities.

Here are two pretty common ones you can check for:

1.) Your arm should hang approximately straight down from your elbow at impact. If your tip is too far away from the ball at address, you are probably setting your arm straight down at that point. Therefore, when the tip actually strikes the cb, your arm may actually be in a follow-through position. This can cause you to be in a decelerated mode at impact.

2.) If your backstroke speed is fast and you don't have a transitional pause at the end of your backstroke, your stroke timing could be off, and you may have maxed out your speed too early. You can fix this in a couple of ways:. One: Slow down your backstroke or Two: take a little more of a pause at the end of your backstroke. Some players don't like to pause and other players don't like a slow backstroke. Doing both are ok as well, but you need at least one.

 

[Scott Lee]

All poolplayers have to pause at the end of their backswing, for a smooth transition to the forward stroke. Some pause longer than others. For some it is natural and others have to do it on purpose.

To the OP...Striking the CB when your forearm is ahead of perpendicular essentially means that you're not hitting where you think you're aiming (in your case, late). Bridge length is not that big of a deal, unless you've got a 15-20" bridge. Just make sure you're holding your cue where (as Fran said) your forearm hangs straight down (your hand falls under your elbow), when your tip is at contact with the CB. The problems you're seeing can be caused by many factors...not the least of which is gripping the cue too tightly on impact. MOST poolplayers grip too tightly. That doesn't allow the weight of the cue & timing to create the strokespeed, and results in a "muscled" swing through the CB. A good instructor, who uses video review, can help you determine what the problems are, and teach you how to self correct your own errors.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

 

[stljohnny]

My grip is pretty loose (if you're behind me, you can see right down the butt of the cue through my grip) and I've really been trying to readjust my stance to further enforce that 90-at-the-contact-point form. One thing I didn't mention is that I do have that wrist-flick thing, and I think I'm flicking before contact instead of after.

I have recently changed my backswing to be slower and with more of a defined pause than I normally do. It's something I still have to consciously think about sometimes when I notice I'm not doing it. I'm trying to model my overall stroke timing after SVB, a controlled and deliberate backswing with a smooth transition forward. (without the elbow re-alignment he does though) It works pretty well for me usually - but like I said, for some shots I'm finishing early.

I have some video of this but I haven't uploaded it yet (it's buried within a bunch of games I need to go through and find the best examples).

I think Fran's point about the tip being too far away at the address point, which determines my stance location (correct?), is worth investigating. I dont think I'm more than an inch away from the CB during my pre-strokes, but just might be the end of my pendulum. Hrmm.

Thanks for the comments, I'll try some things out and see if I can't spot the trouble areas.

 

[pooltchr]

Many people understand that the grip hand should be underneath the elbow at the Set position. But it is just as important that the tip be very close (1/4 to 1/2 inch) from the cue ball at the same time. These are two of the most critical aspects of a proper Set position.

Steve

 

[Scott Lee]

stljohnny...Everybody's grip is loose at the end of the backswing (which is what you'd see standing behind you). Where the problem occurs, is in the transition to the forward stroke. Most players clench the cue as they strike ball. You can't see that from the back (unless you twist your wrist). Where you CAN see it, is from the side. That's why when people post videos, we instructors always want to see the entire stroking arm. BTW, where you're supposed to hold your cue has nothing to do with how you should stand. Two different issues. Also, the "wrist-flick" does nothing to improve the action or accuracy on the CB. I'd be happy to come to St. Louis and show you this stuff, in person, if you're interested.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

My grip is pretty loose (if you're behind me, you can see right down the butt of the cue through my grip) and I've really been trying to readjust my stance to further enforce that 90-at-the-contact-point form. One thing I didn't mention is that I do have that wrist-flick thing, and I think I'm flicking before contact instead of after.

I have recently changed my backswing to be slower and with more of a defined pause than I normally do. It's something I still have to consciously think about sometimes when I notice I'm not doing it. I'm trying to model my overall stroke timing after SVB, a controlled and deliberate backswing with a smooth transition forward. (without the elbow re-alignment he does though) It works pretty well for me usually - but like I said, for some shots I'm finishing early.

I have some video of this but I haven't uploaded it yet (it's buried within a bunch of games I need to go through and find the best examples).

I think Fran's point about the tip being too far away at the address point, which determines my stance location (correct?), is worth investigating. I dont think I'm more than an inch away from the CB during my pre-strokes, but just might be the end of my pendulum. Hrmm.

Thanks for the comments, I'll try some things out and see if I can't spot the trouble areas.

 

[stljohnny]

Many people understand that the grip hand should be underneath the elbow at the Set position. But it is just as important that the tip be very close (1/4 to 1/2 inch) from the cue ball at the same time. These are two of the most critical aspects of a proper Set position.

Steve

BTW, where you're supposed to hold your cue has nothing to do with how you should stand. Two different issues.

I guess I thought that in my well balanced stance (as in, not leaning forward, backward or sideways - when the shot allows), my "Set" position I guess, the tip should be in that range mentioned by Steve. So, if I'm set too far away from the CB, then my stroke will finish before contact, or least it will diminish the follow-through ability?

Scott, honestly, I'd love to get some personal instruction (been talking about getting a group together with Mark Wilson with several people, just because he's local, but i'll never happen) but I know I don't have the [financial] ability to do that right now. I might be interested in a video review or something like that - can you PM me more information about that - if that's something you do?

 

[Scott Lee]

stljohnny...Your stroke 'finishes' long past where you actually strike the CB. The rest of what you said is true. If, in your set position, your tip is still a couple of inches from the CB, you will strike the CB in a different place than you anticipated. That's the downside...plus it makes the timing more difficult, to let the cue do the work. The 'finish' is where your tip goes, after contact, based on how your arm works with your body, in a pendulum swing.

Yes, I can do just a video review with you. It takes 1-2 hrs. and costs $100. PM me some contact info if you're interested.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I guess I thought that in my well balanced stance (as in, not leaning forward, backward or sideways - when the shot allows), my "Set" position I guess, the tip should be in that range mentioned by Steve. So, if I'm set too far away from the CB, then my stroke will finish before contact, or least it will diminish the follow-through ability?

Scott, honestly, I'd love to get some personal instruction (been talking about getting a group together with Mark Wilson with several people, just because he's local, but i'll never happen) but I know I don't have the [financial] ability to do that right now. I might be interested in a video review or something like that - can you PM me more information about that - if that's something you do?