Sold Cortland Linen wrap material (Yes it is real)

[Kenny]

I have two 50 yard rolls of original Cortland Linen wrap material left. Purchased this from Pechauer about 12-15 years ago. Had several rolls, only 2 left.
$325 each shipped to you. Taking Paypal only.
Any questions, please text or call Kenny at 850-819-2083.
Before you call to tell me I dont have the correct stuff, please look at the picture of the end frayed, it is flax with one green thread, it is correct, not the blue mountain linen which was made differently. I know, put allot of it on cues.
Thanks

 

[ideologist]

I have two 50 yard rolls of original Cortland Linen wrap material left. Purchased this from Pechauer about 12-15 years ago. Had several rolls, only 2 left.
$325 each shipped to you. Taking Paypal only.
Any questions, please text or call Kenny at 850-819-2083.
Before you call to tell me I dont have the correct stuff, please look at the picture of the end frayed, it is flax with one green thread, it is correct, not the blue mountain linen which was made differently. I know, put allot of it on cues.
ThanksView attachment 784277View attachment 784278

This might be linen, but it isn't Cortland #9 (the stuff that you are referring to)

Who did you buy this from?

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

This might be linen, but it isn't Cortland #9 (the stuff that you are referring to)

Who did you buy this from?

He said in his op that he purchased these from Pechauer approx 12-15 years ago. I know a few people who also bought Cortland from Pechauer they were known to have a pretty good supply of it.

If I may ask, what is it about the wrap pictured here that doesn't look right to you?

 

[ideologist]

He said in his op that he purchased these from Pechauer approx 12-15 years ago. I know a few people who also bought Cortland from Pechauer they were known to have a pretty good supply of it.

If I may ask, what is it about the wrap pictured here that doesn't look right to you?

I have called out Pechauer repeatedly for not selling actual Cortland #9, but pricing it as such

Maybe it was a bulk Cortland roll from later on, but it's not the stuff installed on cues from 50-60 years ago

Specks are too heavy, too big, too dark. One entire strand is green in the photo. Cortland #9 was one green thread in a strand, lighter shade too

People get heisted by Pechauer and then come in as experts on a specific vintage linen

 

[mikemosconi]

I have called out Pechauer repeatedly for not selling actual Cortland #9, but pricing it as such

Maybe it was a bulk Cortland roll from later on, but it's not the stuff installed on cues from 50-60 years ago

Specks are too heavy, too big, too dark. One entire strand is green in the photo. Cortland #9 was one green thread in a strand, lighter shade too

People get heisted by Pechauer and then come in as experts on a specific vintage linen

I did not want to weigh in on this controversy until now and from my own experience with true Cortland#9 on older pool cues - I 100% agree that this linen for sale had green specs that were too dark and that the linen shown would not look the same on my pre-owned Cortland wrapped cues

 

[ideologist]

I did not want to weigh in on this controversy until now and from my own experience with true Cortland#9 on older pool cues - I 100% agree that this linen for sale had green specs that were too dark and that the linen shown would not look the same on my pre-owned Cortland wrapped cues

I have blasted Pechauer on this forum a few times for claiming it is #9 when it isn't

Every time some sucker lists their Pechauer linen as authentic, I can't help but laugh

 

[FSutton]

Now that I look at it this is the same stuff Ernie Gutierrez at Ginacue charge me $350 for as “authentic” Cortland this year on a cue.

 

[bbb]

This might be linen, but it isn't Cortland #9 (the stuff that you are referring to)

Who did you buy this from?

I have blasted Pechauer on this forum a few times for claiming it is #9 when it isn't

Every time some sucker lists their Pechauer linen as authentic, I can't help but laugh

I did not want to weigh in on this controversy until now and from my own experience with true Cortland#9 on older pool cues - I 100% agree that this linen for sale had green specs that were too dark and that the linen shown would not look the same on my pre-owned Cortland wrapped cues

Now that I look at it this is the same stuff Ernie Gutierrez at Ginacue charge me $350 for as “authentic” Cortland this year on a cue.

So who do you believe?
You have Pechauer and Gina cues
A respected company and cuemaker calling a linen cortland and a few AZBers saying they are wrong and dont know the difference or implying they are knowingly committing fraud?
Who you going to believe?
Askin for a friend…

 

[fjk]

We need to see some close-ups of the number #9 on the spool. It's possible there are some manufacturing variations. Could be everyone is correct.

 

[mikemosconi]

So who do you believe?
You have Pechauer and Gina cues
A respected company and cuemaker calling a linen cortland and a few AZBers saying they are wrong and dont know the difference or implying they are knowingly committing fraud?
Who you going to believe?
Askin for a friend…

Well I am not accusing anyone of fraud or mis- information - I am saying that I have owned cues and personally witnessed cues going back to the 1960s that for sure had Cortland linen wraps and the green specs appeared lighter in shade than what is shown here.
So each person can make their own individual determination - when you have material from decades ago not in original packaging it becomes the buyer’s decision on any purchase- period.

 

[bbb]

Well I am not accusing anyone of fraud or mis- information - I am saying that I have owned cues and personally witnessed cues going back to the 1960s that for sure had Cortland linen wraps and the green specs appeared lighter in shade than what is shown here.
So each person can make their own individual determination - when you have material from decades ago not in original packaging it becomes the buyer’s decision on any purchase- period.

over the years i have always found your posts to be your honest opinion
and your post in this thread also was your opinion based on your observations
i respect that...
i just find it hard to believe a company like pechauer would risk its reputation on selling a fraudulent product especially when its sales (the cortland) are probably a very small percentage of their gross income. also they have been around long enough to know what cortland looks like.
same with gina cue...ernie knows what cortland looks like and the difference in total cost of the cue between a cortland wrap and regular linen wrap is a small percentage of the total cost. there would be no reason for ernie to risk his reputation for a few hundred dollars
JMHO
ICBW

 

[mikemosconi]

The only way that I could say for sure as per my experience would be to see this linen on a cue and actually handle the cue. To me, Cortland was neither tacky nor slick in feel. It was a perfect smoothness that actually did feel different from other linen wraps.
I would go with Cortland every time if it were available. The specs were a light green for sure and the linen was softer in feel than what we encounter today.

 

[fjk]

The only way that I could say for sure as per my experience would be to see this linen on a cue and actually handle the cue. To me, Cortland was neither tacky nor slick in feel. It was a perfect smoothness that actually did feel different from other linen wraps.
I would go with Cortland every time if it were available. The specs were a light green for sure and the linen was softer in feel than what we encounter today.

I agree that Cortland has a totally different feel. To me, it feels similar to cloth...almost feels like it would be absorbent. Today's linen feels like plastic in comparison.

I had a very well known cue maker tell me that he could process his linen in a way where I couldn't tell the difference between it and Cortland. I tried it and he was very mistaken.

 

[ideologist]

over the years i have always found your posts to be your honest opinion
and your post in this thread also was your opinion based on your observations
i respect that...
i just find it hard to believe a company like pechauer would risk its reputation on selling a fraudulent product especially when its sales (the cortland) are probably a very small percentage of their gross income. also they have been around long enough to know what cortland looks like.
same with gina cue...ernie knows what cortland looks like and the difference in total cost of the cue between a cortland wrap and regular linen wrap is a small percentage of the total cost. there would be no reason for ernie to risk his reputation for a few hundred dollars
JMHO
ICBW

The stuff people pay an incredible premium for is famous for having a single green thread in a single strand.

What is shown here might be a flax linen, but it is a solid green strand. It's not what was installed on a Balabushka or early Gina

I like your suggestion that I'm less believable because I don't have a name like Pechauer, but the visual is obvious.

Here is a comparison of actual Cortland. This isn't the light green #9 so the specks are darker, but you can see plainly that the strand count is different with a single colored thread in one strand only

 

[bbb]

^^^^
Thanks for your reply

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

The stuff people pay an incredible premium for is famous for having a single green thread in a single strand.

What is shown here might be a flax linen, but it is a solid green strand. It's not what was installed on a Balabushka or early Gina

I like your suggestion that I'm less believable because I don't have a name like Pechauer, but the visual is obvious.

Here is a comparison of actual Cortland. This isn't the light green #9 so the specks are darker, but you can see plainly that the strand count is different with a single colored thread in one strand only

View attachment 788604
View attachment 788605
View attachment 788608

This is an excellent illustrative example of the single thread (smaller) vs the solid green larger thread in the one pictured in the op. I have a number of cues with the original Cortland linen with the light green specks, I will get a picture of them to post here.

I was also aware that some genuine Cortland linens had the darker specks like the one you are posting here so when I saw Kenny post these for sale I bought them to use for a couple future rewraps. Over the years I have been aware of a few guys who sourced "Cortland" wrap from Pechauer so naturally the fact that Kenny said he got these from Pechauer added credibility with what I knew. I was not aware of any previous disagreements about their line and whether or not it was genuine.

I want it known that Kenny Murrell was a please to do business with and when I brought this added discussion to his attention he was very willing to make an accommodation so he and I are good. He said that he was no expert on the line but that he has installed enough of it to appreciate the quality and added how beautifully it presses.

With your illustration I get how the smaller single thread once wrapped on a cue would look mych less busy than the Pechauer one and with the less typical darker green it would be even more pronounced.

Thanks for posting it.

 

[ideologist]

This is an excellent illustrative example of the single thread (smaller) vs the solid green larger thread in the one pictured in the op. I have a number of cues with the original Cortland linen with the light green specks, I will get a picture of them to post here.

I was also aware that some genuine Cortland linens had the darker specks like the one you are posting here so when I saw Kenny post these for sale I bought them to use for a couple future rewraps. Over the years I have been aware of a few guys who sourced "Cortland" wrap from Pechauer so naturally the fact that Kenny said he got these from Pechauer added credibility with what I knew. I was not aware of any previous disagreements about their line and whether or not it was genuine.

I want it known that Kenny Murrell was a please to do business with and when I brought this added discussion to his attention he was very willing to make an accommodation so he and I are good. He said that he was no expert on the line but that he has installed enough of it to appreciate the quality and added how beautifully it presses.

With your illustration I get how the smaller single thread once wrapped on a cue would look mych less busy than the Pechauer one and with the less typical darker green it would be even more pronounced.

Thanks for posting it.

I'm glad he was accommodating, gentlemen can do good business

It's really too bad that people get hosed by Pechauer over and over, myself included in that group. When I shared my displeasure, they basically told me that I didn't know what I was talking about and hung up on me, hence my annoyance whenever I see their fake spools online

 

[Bavafongoul]

I bumped into an old acquaintance that was a billiards equipment dealer. We were discussing cues and he mentioned
that he still has several large spools of Cortland Linen. Now I’m wondering if I should approach him about selling any.

His health hasn’t been good and it’s been diminishing so maybe he wants to pass along what might be viewed as a cache of Cortland Linen heretofore not known to exist. 5 of my cues use Cortland Linen as the wrap and for what it might be worth, it would be on all my pool cues if I had been able to find more of it. Alas, I couldn’t despite my best efforts to locate any CL still in good condition. I discovered some that was just old, dry, brittle, fraying and unusable. Verify before you ever buy any CL.

Here’s some photos of my CL cue wraps and if you can find any, it will be very expensive as you’ve already read.

 

[FSutton]

threads to check out

Adventures in Linen - (Cortland 9-27)

Just a story.. Steve Klein, Mark K, and myself set out to try and get 9-27 linen duplicated. We took this very far, probably further than most would attempt. The reason I am putting this out here is I believe I have seen a cue with this wrap and...

forums.azbilliards.com

Green and white Cortland wrap

How rare is the original green and white cortland linen that G. Szamboti and Balabushka used. It's a little finer than the linen used today. Is it still available?? Thanks...............TommyT

forums.azbilliards.com

 

[macneilb]

I have no dog in this fight, but could it be that Cortland linen had some lesser known variations throughout their production run? Not discrediting anyone here as we have some extremely knowledgeable members, however I have a very hard time believing that Joe Pechauer and Ernie Gutierrez would mislead potential buyers and/or collectors…not to mention both have been building cues for a very long time