CTE PRO ONE: moving into the shot

[mohrt]

Regarding how to move into a given shot. That is, how the cue moves, how the bridge hand moves, how the body moves. We often hear an answer in the form of "the eyes lead, the body follows." I thought I'd try something that reinforces what that statement is conveying.

Forget aiming systems for a minute, let's draw a straight line on the table and place our cueball exactly centered on it. Here I'm just using a line I already have on my table.

OK, that line is now our primary target. We want to move into the shot and place our cue directly over that line. This is extremely objective, isn't it? No matter how we swing our cue in, no matter how our bridge hand comes in, and no matter what our body is doing while we move in, we already know where that cue is going, and that is directly over this line. Our eyes can see this line with utmost clarity, and no matter how we move in we are very certain that our cue is going on end up exactly over that line.

With a line drawn on the table, it makes you realize that the importance of HOW we move into the shot isn't nearly as important as what our eyes are telling us. Our eyes tell us where we need to end up, an we need to focus on that information to arrive precisely on that line.

Now take this over to CTE. We no longer have a drawn line on the table, but instead we have to trust our eyes to take us to center cueball. We must then focus all attention on CCB while we move the cue into position. Exactly how the cue is moved, or how the bridge hand moves or how our body moves is secondary to what our eyes are telling us.

To be clear, I'm not saying how you move into the shot is not important. However, what your eyes are telling you are THE most important part of the routine. Given practice, your body learns optimal ways to move so you end up in a comfortable stance and bridge distance. But more importantly, our eyes tell us where the ultimate destination is for our cue: on the shot line. Center cueball is the target!

When I first realized this, my motion into the shot changed forever. I often had a tendency to "beat my eyes to the shot". But now I just move my cue in along side my body and only AFTER my eyes find that CCB target, I turn my cue into CCB.

Hope that helps someone!

 

[Ratta]

Regarding how to move into a given shot. That is, how the cue moves, how the bridge hand moves, how the body moves. We often hear an answer in the form of "the eyes lead, the body follows." I thought I'd try something that reinforces what that statement is conveying.

Forget aiming systems for a minute, let's draw a straight line on the table and place our cueball exactly centered on it. Here I'm just using a line I already have on my table.

OK, that line is now our primary target. We want to move into the shot and place our cue directly over that line. This is extremely objective, isn't it? No matter how we swing our cue in, no matter how our bridge hand comes in, and no matter what our body is doing while we move in, we already know where that cue is going, and that is directly over this line. Our eyes can see this line with utmost clarity, and no matter how we move in we are very certain that our cue is going on end up exactly over that line.

With a line drawn on the table, it makes you realize that the importance of HOW we move into the shot isn't nearly as important as what our eyes are telling us. Our eyes tell us where we need to end up, an we need to focus on that information to arrive precisely on that line.

Now take this over to CTE. We no longer have a drawn line on the table, but instead we have to trust our eyes to take us to center cueball. We must then focus all attention on CCB while we move the cue into position. Exactly how the cue is moved, or how the bridge hand moves or how our body moves is secondary to what our eyes are telling us.

To be clear, I'm not saying how you move into the shot is not important. However, what your eyes are telling you are THE most important part of the routine. Given practice, your body learns optimal ways to move so you end up in a comfortable stance and bridge distance. But more importantly, our eyes tell us where the ultimate destination is for our cue: on the shot line. Center cueball is the target!

When I first realized this, my motion into the shot changed forever. I often had a tendency to "beat my eyes to the shot". But now I just move my cue in along side my body and only AFTER my eyes find that CCB target, I turn my cue into CCB.

Hope that helps someone!

important and well explained!

 

[BeiberLvr]

Good stuff Mohrt. I'd like to share a little story, and I hope to keep it brief, though it's doubtful.

I practiced for about 5 hours straight today, and the first 2 hours were spent strictly on a couple reference shots. Luckily for me, the pool hall I go to has Centennial balls, so I shot all the reference shots using the stripes. I would definitely recommend anyone new to the system to do that as well, because it was my first time trying it, and I noticed something immediately.

On the A/C visuals, I realized I was lining up the CB edge way too thick, and that was causing a lot of misses.

So after spending those 2 hours on reference shots, I started doing what Mohrt is talking about. Instead of thinking about whether the shot was a left or right sweep, I just focused on CCB, and let my body do the work.

I spent most of the time afterwards playing straight pool. While I didn't break my personal high run, I am confident that I will in the near future. I am still really weak when it comes to patterns in that game, especially at the end of the rack.

 

[mohrt]

Instead of thinking about whether the shot was a left or right sweep, I just focused on CCB, and let my body do the work.

Hi BeiberLvr,

I just want to be certain something was not taken wrong... what I'm discussing in this thread all happens after the alignment and sweep are determined. I'm not suggesting you forget about the sweep, you still must determine the correct one for the shot.

1) determine visual/sweep for the shot
2) find the alignment and freeze your head and look at CCB.
3) sweep into CCB. As you move in, your cue moves in with your body at a comfortable angle, but not yet trying to turn on onto the shot line
4) once your eyes settle on CCB post-pivot, THEN turn your cue onto the line.

With practice these steps likely become an unconscious stream of fluid movements. That is what I gather watching Landon play a match It may be true you don't even think about left/right sweep after a long period of using CTE... your eyes instantly pick up what needs to happen, and your body knows what to do.

 

[BeiberLvr]

Hi BeiberLvr,

I just want to be certain something was not taken wrong... what I'm discussing in this thread all happens after the alignment and sweep are determined. I'm not suggesting you forget about the sweep, you still must determine the correct one for the shot.

1) determine visual/sweep for the shot
2) find the alignment and freeze your head and look at CCB.
3) sweep into CCB. As you move in, your cue moves in with your body at a comfortable angle, but not yet trying to turn on onto the shot line
4) once your eyes settle on CCB post-pivot, THEN turn your cue onto the line.

With practice these steps likely become an unconscious stream of fluid movements. That is what I gather watching Landon play a match It may be true you don't even think about left/right sweep after a long period of using CTE... your eyes instantly pick up what needs to happen, and your body knows what to do.

#'s 3 and 4 sound a lot like what I was talking about in my "Sweep Help" thread.

That's what I was doing in my 2 hours of shooting reference shots with the stripe balls. I also don't want to sound like I'll never think about the sweeps again. I know I'm far from the system being that automatic for me. I imagine that at the beginning of each session, the first 30 minutes or so will be a lot of conscious thought about each step.

Eventually though, I'm sure I'll be able to skip that, and just get straight into pocketing balls

 

[Tony_in_MD]

Good explanation.

One question how do you determine center cue ball? For myself I focus on the bottom of the ball, but I don't do CTE.

Is there a better method one more compatible with CTE?

Regarding how to move into a given shot. That is, how the cue moves, how the bridge hand moves, how the body moves. We often hear an answer in the form of "the eyes lead, the body follows." I thought I'd try something that reinforces what that statement is conveying.

Forget aiming systems for a minute, let's draw a straight line on the table and place our cueball exactly centered on it. Here I'm just using a line I already have on my table.

OK, that line is now our primary target. We want to move into the shot and place our cue directly over that line. This is extremely objective, isn't it? No matter how we swing our cue in, no matter how our bridge hand comes in, and no matter what our body is doing while we move in, we already know where that cue is going, and that is directly over this line. Our eyes can see this line with utmost clarity, and no matter how we move in we are very certain that our cue is going on end up exactly over that line.

With a line drawn on the table, it makes you realize that the importance of HOW we move into the shot isn't nearly as important as what our eyes are telling us. Our eyes tell us where we need to end up, an we need to focus on that information to arrive precisely on that line.

Now take this over to CTE. We no longer have a drawn line on the table, but instead we have to trust our eyes to take us to center cueball. We must then focus all attention on CCB while we move the cue into position. Exactly how the cue is moved, or how the bridge hand moves or how our body moves is secondary to what our eyes are telling us.

To be clear, I'm not saying how you move into the shot is not important. However, what your eyes are telling you are THE most important part of the routine. Given practice, your body learns optimal ways to move so you end up in a comfortable stance and bridge distance. But more importantly, our eyes tell us where the ultimate destination is for our cue: on the shot line. Center cueball is the target!

When I first realized this, my motion into the shot changed forever. I often had a tendency to "beat my eyes to the shot". But now I just move my cue in along side my body and only AFTER my eyes find that CCB target, I turn my cue into CCB.

Hope that helps someone!

 

[mohrt]

Good explanation.

One question how do you determine center cue ball? For myself I focus on the bottom of the ball, but I don't do CTE.

Is there a better method one more compatible with CTE?

I think the bottom or top are pretty objective targets for CCB.

 

[evis]

Quick question when your getting down on the shot, your focusing on CCB, when do your eye switch to the OB?

 

[mohrt]

Quick question when your getting down on the shot, your focusing on CCB, when do your eye switch to the OB?

Speaking very pragmatically, you shouldn't have to look at the OB if everything was done correctly. In reality, you will probably always glance up at the OB if only to check that everything "looks" good before you shoot.

You see all the curtain demos that Stan posts on youtube, there is one specifically where he hides the OB once he has is visuals locked on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l0fAwmeOq8

So maybe you are on the shot line looking at CCB, you then (without moving anything but your eyes) look up at the OB and double-check everything is a go, then focus back to CCB and shoot.

 

[scottjen26]

Good post mohrt.

Maybe you can also elaborate on your interpretation of which CCB you are looking at / moving into with your stick, might help some people put the pieces together. I know how I do it, just curious about your thoughts.

When you perform your initial alignment, you line up CTE and the secondary aim point (edge to A, B, etc.). That determines the fixed cue ball, as Stan explains it. From there, you are a manual 1/2 tip pivot away from the correct shot line, or a visual sweep that mimics that same 1/2 tip pivot.

So you can't head down to CCB of the fixed cue ball, because the 1/2 tip pivot/sweep needs to be factored in as well. So what physical or visual movement are you making to head toward the correct CCB? Like Bieber, I used to try to get there with different physical movements (more of a pivot vs. drop down), but the new and more advocated method is the visual sweep. But visual sweep from where to where? Do you move your eyes to "see" a different CCB, or move them and then move to a new CCB from your offset visual position?


Hope this makes sense. I think this concept, as well as what you mentioned and several other key things highlighted by Stan's support videos, really fill in a lot of detailed information that was missing from DVD 1 and will hopefully be included on DVD 2. Aligning correctly and having a consistent pivot/sweep motion is what really adds consistency to the system.

Scott

 

[mohrt]

Good post mohrt.

Maybe you can also elaborate on your interpretation of which CCB you are looking at / moving into with your stick, might help some people put the pieces together. I know how I do it, just curious about your thoughts.

When you perform your initial alignment, you line up CTE and the secondary aim point (edge to A, B, etc.). That determines the fixed cue ball, as Stan explains it. From there, you are a manual 1/2 tip pivot away from the correct shot line, or a visual sweep that mimics that same 1/2 tip pivot.

So you can't head down to CCB of the fixed cue ball, because the 1/2 tip pivot/sweep needs to be factored in as well. So what physical or visual movement are you making to head toward the correct CCB? Like Bieber, I used to try to get there with different physical movements (more of a pivot vs. drop down), but the new and more advocated method is the visual sweep. But visual sweep from where to where? Do you move your eyes to "see" a different CCB, or move them and then move to a new CCB from your offset visual position?


Hope this makes sense. I think this concept, as well as what you mentioned and several other key things highlighted by Stan's support videos, really fill in a lot of detailed information that was missing from DVD 1 and will hopefully be included on DVD 2. Aligning correctly and having a consistent pivot/sweep motion is what really adds consistency to the system.

Scott

Yes, I had the exact same questions myself. And the short answer is, you learn what that 1/2 tip pivot looks and feels like through repetition. Start with a long straight-in shot, then practice both left sweeps and right sweeps with it. Pay attention when you sweep, see how slight it really is. For right-handers, a right sweep is basically bending straight down with only a slight right movement of the eyes. A left sweep is more of a rotation of the shoulder, but probably a smaller movement than you might think.

Use this straight-in shot to train yourself how a left and right sweep looks and feels. From there, take that same sweep to all the other shots on the table. As you shoot, it refines itself indefinitely.

I shot with manual pivoting for a very long time and only recently started using Pro One regularly. I'm doing pretty well with it, but still have a long journey ahead!

 

[Jpool1985]

I've been practicing different. I just do my set up seeing center to edge and base on Hal Houle how he taught me is Left Edge,Left quarter(A) Center(B) Right quarter(C) and Right Edge. I know base on which points judging on how much of a angle is.

before doing something different I already know what the angle and which quarters,center or edges to hit at. I walk up and get down center cue ball and aim directly at one of those spot. What I am doing different this time, instead of knowing and where and just walking behind down center cue ball, I now just walk up and set myself to see center to edge( my stand and sight point) but I already see the angle and know where to hit so I get down pointing at the oh one of of spot. What I notice is I am moving more over and body move over more to center cue ball. I

I am doing same thing but I am eliminate the just walk up behind cue ball and the go offset down and see center cue ball to the spot. I feel that if I start off seeing center to edge, then get down reaching out to either pointing to LE,LQ,CENTER,RQ AND RE, I feel my body is moving little more slightly and little more over depend on the shots.

Idk if that is correct but I feel that way shooting sometime. I keep going back way I did it but gotta remind myself don't walk up center cue ball sighting at either LE,LQ,CENTER,RQ AND RE. just start center to edge than choose one of those spot and once I do, again I am moving over little more and then into center. It seem weird to me cause I am not doing it on suppose it like my see it and my body reaching over.

 

[stan shuffett]

Good post mohrt.

Maybe you can also elaborate on your interpretation of which CCB you are looking at / moving into with your stick, might help some people put the pieces together. I know how I do it, just curious about your thoughts.

When you perform your initial alignment, you line up CTE and the secondary aim point (edge to A, B, etc.). That determines the fixed cue ball, as Stan explains it. From there, you are a manual 1/2 tip pivot away from the correct shot line, or a visual sweep that mimics that same 1/2 tip pivot.

So you can't head down to CCB of the fixed cue ball, because the 1/2 tip pivot/sweep needs to be factored in as well. So what physical or visual movement are you making to head toward the correct CCB? Like Bieber, I used to try to get there with different physical movements (more of a pivot vs. drop down), but the new and more advocated method is the visual sweep. But visual sweep from where to where? Do you move your eyes to "see" a different CCB, or move them and then move to a new CCB from your offset visual position?


Hope this makes sense. I think this concept, as well as what you mentioned and several other key things highlighted by Stan's support videos, really fill in a lot of detailed information that was missing from DVD 1 and will hopefully be included on DVD 2. Aligning correctly and having a consistent pivot/sweep motion is what really adds consistency to the system.

Scott

Scott, the (where to where) is in manual CTE. Anyone can stay with that version for as long as they desire.

In PRO ONE, as I have indicated many times, it 's SEE and SHOOT. All shots are like straight ins.

All of the major concepts that are critical for learning CTE PRO ONE are included in DVD1.

Stan Shuffett

 

[nobcitypool]

For me at least, the first step is not only to find the correct visual and fixed CCB but to also make sure my alignment is correct. This takes some discipline and practice. If I'm not careful, I find the visual and fixed CCB but screw it up by coming into CCB with the wrong alignment.

As far as Manual CTE, what seems to work best for me is to use the edge of the cue tip to determine the 1/2 tip pivot. Once you have your visual and the correct alignment, just come in with the inside edge of the tip of your cue (dependent upon which sweep you have to make) on CCB. Obviously then, a 1/2 tip manual pivot brings you to CCB. I most often use the top of the CB to find that CCB point to bring the tip of my cue into. If you've found the correct fixed CCB and are aligned properly, coming in like this makes placing the bridge hand a rather unconscious movement/placement.

 

[Jpool1985]

I still aim the way Hal Houle 1st taught me. I decided to try something different. Way I do it( Now I already know the angles and basing on which 3 spots are A,B, and C and then there edges shot for hard cut shot) I sight center cue ball to either one of the 3 spots and also edges depend how much of an angle is and then get down but using the side of my shaft/ferrule to aim at the A,B, or C and or edges. I basically used to it seeing angles and knowing which one of the spots to hit it at.

Thing I've been trying different is doing Stan Shuffett version doing the center to the edge body set and foot work. Well I am only sighting center to the edge and not going basing on cue ball edge to either A,B, or C. I am still using how Hal taught me way I do but using little of what Stan show.

I set my sight to see center to the edge, now I know this is the quarter ball shot so I get down and aim at either A or C depend on what shot it is, center cue ball and aiming my shaft/ferrule at either A,B,C and edges. only thing I am doing different is.........instead of sighting center cue ball directly behind to either A,B,C and edges......now what I am doing different is sighting my line to center to the edge and and sweep into either A,B,C or edges.

I feel like I am moving more over into the line instead of doing my old way just seeing and sighting and get down and shoot. I feel center to edge can guarantee my body is set and get down correctly. I feel my old way I may seem/think I am down on the right place and cue stick on the line but not to me....feel like I may be off the line a little or whatever it call. I feel sighting center to edge can get my body set into the shot. I don't do pivot and choosing cue ball edge to a,b, or c....that too much work for me.

so I'm sorry i am rambling on but hope can understand and get the idea what i am saying. I am using how Hal taught me and I only using stan version for sighting center to edge part.

 

[stan shuffett]

Regarding how to move into a given shot. That is, how the cue moves, how the bridge hand moves, how the body moves. We often hear an answer in the form of "the eyes lead, the body follows." I thought I'd try something that reinforces what that statement is conveying.

Forget aiming systems for a minute, let's draw a straight line on the table and place our cueball exactly centered on it. Here I'm just using a line I already have on my table.

OK, that line is now our primary target. We want to move into the shot and place our cue directly over that line. This is extremely objective, isn't it? No matter how we swing our cue in, no matter how our bridge hand comes in, and no matter what our body is doing while we move in, we already know where that cue is going, and that is directly over this line. Our eyes can see this line with utmost clarity, and no matter how we move in we are very certain that our cue is going on end up exactly over that line.

With a line drawn on the table, it makes you realize that the importance of HOW we move into the shot isn't nearly as important as what our eyes are telling us. Our eyes tell us where we need to end up, an we need to focus on that information to arrive precisely on that line.

Now take this over to CTE. We no longer have a drawn line on the table, but instead we have to trust our eyes to take us to center cueball. We must then focus all attention on CCB while we move the cue into position. Exactly how the cue is moved, or how the bridge hand moves or how our body moves is secondary to what our eyes are telling us.

To be clear, I'm not saying how you move into the shot is not important. However, what your eyes are telling you are THE most important part of the routine. Given practice, your body learns optimal ways to move so you end up in a comfortable stance and bridge distance. But more importantly, our eyes tell us where the ultimate destination is for our cue: on the shot line. Center cueball is the target!

When I first realized this, my motion into the shot changed forever. I often had a tendency to "beat my eyes to the shot". But now I just move my cue in along side my body and only AFTER my eyes find that CCB target, I turn my cue into CCB.

Hope that helps someone!

Excellent post! Monte!

Stan Shuffett

 

[scottjen26]

Scott, the (where to where) is in manual CTE. Anyone can stay with that version for as long as they desire.

In PRO ONE, as I have indicated many times, it 's SEE and SHOOT. All shots are like straight ins.

All of the major concepts that are critical for learning CTE PRO ONE are included in DVD1.

Stan Shuffett

If you read my entire message, I said that I know how I do it, I was asking mohrt to expound on his thoughts in an effort to help others who might have the same question.

I was one of the early adopters of Pro One after the first DVD came out, and I can certainly use it with a high degree of proficiency. I understand quite a bit about it and have had continued conversations with Stan and others to refine certain things. I also think the support videos Stan has done are an awesome complement to DVD1 and hopefully a preview of the type of material to be found in DVD2.

I get that it’s a visual system, it has to be since you can use the A/C alignments anywhere from 0 up to almost 50 degrees and it’s all based on the alignment of the balls and the visual picture, not a concrete cutoff at a certain angle etc as I originally thought. I know there are supposed to be more details on this table geometry in the next DVD, I’m looking forward to that explanation.

However, you can’t tell an analytical person such as myself, and possibly others out there, to just “see and shoot”. That doesn’t compute. To fully get the concepts across to a wide audience, you have to be able to explain the same thing in a different way. I think the support videos have clarified the initial setup process very well, the offset position, the determination of the fixed cue ball. The manual move to the ball and ½ tip pivot is pretty straightforward. What is NOT straightforward, in my opinion, is the visual sweep. Perhaps it’s just me struggling with that concept. I can execute it, because I essentially am still trained to pivot per the first DVD, and those movements are so ingrained as to be pretty automatic. Like mohrt said, the movements are slight and can be trained with straight in or various reference shots, as in DVD1, and then applied to all shots. But I also think that can be a possible source of inconsistency, as if you pivot a little too much or not enough you will end up on the wrong aim line.


So, since I still struggle a bit with the visual sweep notion, I would still like to understand it better, hear a different explanation, etc. Maybe I’m just missing something, I think it’s the only thing I don’t fully understand of the “new” material that has been expanded on since DVD1.

Once I’ve determined my fixed cue ball, if my eyes look at that cue ball’s center, I would move directly into a line that would be ½ tip offset from where I should be. Which means my eyes need to focus on something else to get me into the correct CCB position.

What I’ve tried, correct or not, is align to the fixed cue ball, determine the pivot, then to look at a spot on the fixed cue ball that is right or left of that center. That gets my vision reset somewhat, then as I head down to the cue ball I find the new center from that offset position. That seems to work, but also seems like it can be a bit inconsistent.


Sorry for long post. Would be great if perhaps Stan or mohrt or someone else can explain a bit better what actions they take, physically or visually, once they align CTE and edge to A/B/C and determine what pivot is needed. In other words, what am I trying to “see” to allow my eyes to lead me to the correct shot line. I’m still old school with the learned pivot motions, and while very effective I find that in some positions that table or alignment of the balls can cause you to potentially pivot a little more or less. I’m a perfectionist and that just won’t do!! If I can grasp the visual concept, it seems more reliable as your eyes can just lead you into the shot more naturally, without thinking about dropping down or rotating into the shot a certain amount.

Scott

 

[Neil]

...........


So, since I still struggle a bit with the visual sweep notion, I would still like to understand it better, hear a different explanation, etc. Maybe I’m just missing something, I think it’s the only thing I don’t fully understand of the “new” material that has been expanded on since DVD1.

Once I’ve determined my fixed cue ball, if my eyes look at that cue ball’s center, I would move directly into a line that would be ½ tip offset from where I should be. Which means my eyes need to focus on something else to get me into the correct CCB position.

What I’ve tried, correct or not, is align to the fixed cue ball, determine the pivot, then to look at a spot on the fixed cue ball that is right or left of that center. That gets my vision reset somewhat, then as I head down to the cue ball I find the new center from that offset position. That seems to work, but also seems like it can be a bit inconsistent.


Sorry for long post. Would be great if perhaps Stan or mohrt or someone else can explain a bit better what actions they take, physically or visually, once they align CTE and edge to A/B/C and determine what pivot is needed. In other words, what am I trying to “see” to allow my eyes to lead me to the correct shot line. I’m still old school with the learned pivot motions, and while very effective I find that in some positions that table or alignment of the balls can cause you to potentially pivot a little more or less. I’m a perfectionist and that just won’t do!! If I can grasp the visual concept, it seems more reliable as your eyes can just lead you into the shot more naturally, without thinking about dropping down or rotating into the shot a certain amount.

Scott

Scott, that's the way I do it also. I agree that it is easy to get off line. For me, I have found that usually happens when I get going a little too fast and get sloppy. The video Stan put up where he put the tape on the table really helped me visualize better exactly what we are doing. And, I think of that visually when going down on the shot. Once I get the offset position, I visualize a line coming back from that, and make sure my bridge hand goes down properly on that line.

What also helped me, was to draw a pencil line on the table, and just practice getting down on the line correctly. What I found out, is that rarely am I not on the shot line. Instead, 99%+ of my misses are due to a faulty stroke. That's why I'm working on my stroke now. I also am somewhat of a perfectionist. It's a good thing/bad thing.

 

[stan shuffett]

If you read my entire message, I said that I know how I do it, I was asking mohrt to expound on his thoughts in an effort to help others who might have the same question.

I was one of the early adopters of Pro One after the first DVD came out, and I can certainly use it with a high degree of proficiency. I understand quite a bit about it and have had continued conversations with Stan and others to refine certain things. I also think the support videos Stan has done are an awesome complement to DVD1 and hopefully a preview of the type of material to be found in DVD2.

I get that it’s a visual system, it has to be since you can use the A/C alignments anywhere from 0 up to almost 50 degrees and it’s all based on the alignment of the balls and the visual picture, not a concrete cutoff at a certain angle etc as I originally thought. I know there are supposed to be more details on this table geometry in the next DVD, I’m looking forward to that explanation.

However, you can’t tell an analytical person such as myself, and possibly others out there, to just “see and shoot”. That doesn’t compute. To fully get the concepts across to a wide audience, you have to be able to explain the same thing in a different way. I think the support videos have clarified the initial setup process very well, the offset position, the determination of the fixed cue ball. The manual move to the ball and ½ tip pivot is pretty straightforward. What is NOT straightforward, in my opinion, is the visual sweep. Perhaps it’s just me struggling with that concept. I can execute it, because I essentially am still trained to pivot per the first DVD, and those movements are so ingrained as to be pretty automatic. Like mohrt said, the movements are slight and can be trained with straight in or various reference shots, as in DVD1, and then applied to all shots. But I also think that can be a possible source of inconsistency, as if you pivot a little too much or not enough you will end up on the wrong aim line.


So, since I still struggle a bit with the visual sweep notion, I would still like to understand it better, hear a different explanation, etc. Maybe I’m just missing something, I think it’s the only thing I don’t fully understand of the “new” material that has been expanded on since DVD1.

Once I’ve determined my fixed cue ball, if my eyes look at that cue ball’s center, I would move directly into a line that would be ½ tip offset from where I should be. Which means my eyes need to focus on something else to get me into the correct CCB position.

What I’ve tried, correct or not, is align to the fixed cue ball, determine the pivot, then to look at a spot on the fixed cue ball that is right or left of that center. That gets my vision reset somewhat, then as I head down to the cue ball I find the new center from that offset position. That seems to work, but also seems like it can be a bit inconsistent.


Sorry for long post. Would be great if perhaps Stan or mohrt or someone else can explain a bit better what actions they take, physically or visually, once they align CTE and edge to A/B/C and determine what pivot is needed. In other words, what am I trying to “see” to allow my eyes to lead me to the correct shot line. I’m still old school with the learned pivot motions, and while very effective I find that in some positions that table or alignment of the balls can cause you to potentially pivot a little more or less. I’m a perfectionist and that just won’t do!! If I can grasp the visual concept, it seems more reliable as your eyes can just lead you into the shot more naturally, without thinking about dropping down or rotating into the shot a certain amount.

Scott

Scott,

The last sentence of your post is key.

CTE is primarily visual. All CB OB shot relationships require thickening or thinning.
To do this, the EYES/BODY must move left or right.
I have adequately described and demonstrated over and over how to employ left and right physical movements resulting in one's focal point moving to shot lines.

All shots begin with a visual offset equal to that of a 1/2 tip pivot. That offset is extremely important as it represents a first step in connecting to pockets.
So, all shots are the same visually. It will NEVER get any easier than that. Essentially, as I have said a ton of times , CTE is basically SEE AND SHOOT. ALLOW THE EYES TO LEAD . The visual movement is always equal. The physical moves can and will vary to some degree. That is normal.

I think I have done a fair job in describing the fact that pros play from an offset and absolutely sweep left and right into their shots. This has never been taught before. Have I described everything perfectly in language and math? No! Why? Pool is a visual/ physical game and the perfect language and math to describe every detail from ball address to the shot line does not exist. In spite of that I have spent 1000s of hours of study with the physical/visual aspect of the game and I am still logging the hours striving for perfection....so I can pass it along. I for one hope you arrive at perfection. I know what you mean! Lol

I am proud of what I have put forth and DVD2 will offer more discovery and insight that will be of great benefit to many.

Stan Shuffett

Visual sweeps were defined on DVD1. The definition for visual sweeps is the same today as it was on DVD1.
All zillion CTE shots start at the same visual offset. The VISUAL movement to CCB is the same for ALL shots. Every shot is the same. See the visuals and then naturally sweep either left or right to CCB. That's what is done over and over. Any tweaking that might occur will almost always be equal or less than what occurs for a zero angle shot. What I am saying is that sweeps to CCB are no more difficult than bending or turning into a straight in shot. Just see and do it.

 

[nobcitypool]

Two excellent posts by Scott and Neil. I think it is inaccurate to simply consider CTE/Pro One an aiming system. It is a stroke, alignment and aiming system. Players can become excellent ball pocketers with a somewhat flawed stroke and alignment. After HAMB's, they learn to factor the flaw into their aim. CTE/Pro One is a perfect aiming system, I'm 110% convinced of that. Unfortunately, it exposes stroke and alignment flaws instantly if you're willing to open your eyes and accept that.

I made a mistake by trying to immediately jump into Pro One. Perhaps an accomplished player could do that but I certainly couldn't. CTE is really helping me understand the alignment aspect much better. I've started putting the butt of my cue in a rather fixed position by my hip and forcing myself to move my feet and body to get the right alignment on the cue. This is really helping me as it is forcing me to now get a consistent offset and position for seeing the visuals and moving into the CB.

The other thing I'm doing with CTE is moving my entire body with the pivot. I believe just pivoting with my back hand was leading to stroke errors (steering). Obviously, it also didn't give me the correct final visual for the shot, I.e., the shot didn't look right to go in by feel. I think this also led to subconscious steering. I'd like to think moving everything to pivot will ultimately give me the right feel for adapting Pro One.

One other thing bad about starting with Pro One. Stevie Moore picked up on this during our last lesson. He saw me making a Pro One type pivot moving into my CTE shot sometimes. I was essentially "double pivoting".

Interesting thing for me. I find I want to steer left cuts. I find getting the visuals on right cuts more difficult but don't have as much of a tendency to want to steer the CB subconsciously.

Pool is a wonderful and fascinating sport but I'm glad I don't have to do it for a living. LOL