I'm resistant to to methodologies that don't consider important variables. Show me the disclaimer that goes along with it discussing that it may not be the best solution for dominant eye situations. There is none. There's an arrogance that goes along with limiting one's study in order to prove their hypothesis and conveniently ignoring other possibilities that may decrease it's significance.
Cue alignment update - visual perception error/distortion of the line of aim
- Thread starter z0nt0n3r
- Start date
I don't know the history of the "vision center" concept but something seems "undefinably" off about it. It doesn't seem fleshed out enough to be a useful concept, which is why I was asking when and where the term came from. Nobody seems to know, 'though maybe Dr. Dave does.
Did you sight it from above or with one eye directly behind it at cue level? If you sight it like a rifle I don't see how it could be off.
pj
chgo
I guess I probably put my hands on my knees and looked from there. Maybe I'll try it again like you said. Dave should be more exacting about how to align the cue if this does make a difference, which I think it may. It would be kind of silly to structure your alignment around a faulty template.
You could also snap a chalk line from corner to corner and place the ball and cue on that...?
pj
chgo
have you considered that maybe you THOUGHT that the shots looked correct but in reality, you weren't paying close enough attention?you play with your chin way above the cue in your videos and that makes it more difficult to see very precisely the alignment of the cue and the balls and also it makes it harder to verify each time you get down exactly where the cue is in relation to your eyes because your chin isn't touching the cue.
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how do you find your 'physical' dominant eye?the dominant eye tests which have the player erect looking at something, show me that my right eye is the dominant eye and the dominant eye tests which have the player bent in the shooting position looking at something, show me that my left eye is dominant.
There are many cases when balls will prevent stick placement but if you can get your bridge hand on the table that's half the battle. The rest of the alignment is provided by shot geometry (CPA) and a pre-shot routine configured to lock in post aim.
I suggested that in one of my posts above.
Not exactly sure what point you are addressing. I might be able to see the line better if I got my chin lower but I'm too tall to get that low comfortably. I have verified that I get in the exact same spot over the cue each time, like exactly the same. It's interesting but I don't think I'm unique in that regard.
Only an ophthalmologist can tell you your true physical dominant eye by looking through your eye to the nerves behind the eyeball. The tests we do on our own aren't as reliable as we would like them to be.
thanks for your reply fran
dquarasr
Registered
Wow, what a timely thread for me. As a couple of you may know, and who have helped me, I've struggled with alignment.
I *thought* I had my issues resolved about a month ago (or at least mostly - does one ever have something 100%? No.) When leagues were suspended in the spring, I was a 9-ball 4, and an 8-ball 347. I practiced, a lot, during my furlough (I "got" retired.) Still no shot making consistency. Got some help here, and finally was able to self-diagnose problems. Improved tremendously and was able to replicated it over more than a week.
Played one of my pool friends, a 7, and cleanly beat him in 8-ball something like 7 racks to 2. I was (operative word "was") dialed in. I patted myself on the back.
Then, slowly over the next few weeks, I started missing. Then missing a lot. My pre-spring misses were CB right. After getting help, I was lined up. More recently, my alignment was consistently CB left. *This game is infuriating!!* LOL
So, I took a few days off. Tonight I went to the table and tried to recall how if felt when I beat my 7 buddy. I recall it being *very* natural. So I abandoned my PSR where I was forcing alignment, and tried just aligning the shot naturally, while standing up, then taking a natural step into the shot. Dead Nuts On. Shot a few dozen straight-in shots. Dialed in!
Then I started playing some 9-ball racks. Started out OK. Slowly but surely, started missing. Went back to straight-in reference shots, and I was missing consistently CB left. Shot like 10 in a row where I *thought* I was aligned, and missed consistently the same spot, the OB hitting the rail about 3 inches up from the pocket. Well since I was missing in the EXACT SAME way, I figured my stroke was pretty good. So I started paying attention to *how* I was lining up. Sure enough, in my zeal to be lined up, I started forcing my alignment. I noticed that when I did NOT think about it, my standing up alignment was naturally using my vision center, where I line up the shot with my left eye (right-handed). When I was *trying* to line up, my face was more square to the shot, and I was looking at it via the center of my nose. So, I then forced myself to NOT force alignment, and try aligning naturally. Some shots I had to step away from the table, spin around, then readdress the shot, reminding myself to be as natural as possible.
Started making my straight-in reference shot again, dead nuts on center of the pocket.
Moral of the story? Yes, alignment is paramount. I only hope I can make my natural alignment more, um, natural, and stop subconsciously trying so hard to align myself to the point where I was UN-aligning myself. Just another thing to put in my mental checklist when things start going sideways (literally! LOL). Sorry for long post. PS Great thread.
I *thought* I had my issues resolved about a month ago (or at least mostly - does one ever have something 100%? No.) When leagues were suspended in the spring, I was a 9-ball 4, and an 8-ball 347. I practiced, a lot, during my furlough (I "got" retired.) Still no shot making consistency. Got some help here, and finally was able to self-diagnose problems. Improved tremendously and was able to replicated it over more than a week.
Played one of my pool friends, a 7, and cleanly beat him in 8-ball something like 7 racks to 2. I was (operative word "was") dialed in. I patted myself on the back.
Then, slowly over the next few weeks, I started missing. Then missing a lot. My pre-spring misses were CB right. After getting help, I was lined up. More recently, my alignment was consistently CB left. *This game is infuriating!!* LOL
So, I took a few days off. Tonight I went to the table and tried to recall how if felt when I beat my 7 buddy. I recall it being *very* natural. So I abandoned my PSR where I was forcing alignment, and tried just aligning the shot naturally, while standing up, then taking a natural step into the shot. Dead Nuts On. Shot a few dozen straight-in shots. Dialed in!
Then I started playing some 9-ball racks. Started out OK. Slowly but surely, started missing. Went back to straight-in reference shots, and I was missing consistently CB left. Shot like 10 in a row where I *thought* I was aligned, and missed consistently the same spot, the OB hitting the rail about 3 inches up from the pocket. Well since I was missing in the EXACT SAME way, I figured my stroke was pretty good. So I started paying attention to *how* I was lining up. Sure enough, in my zeal to be lined up, I started forcing my alignment. I noticed that when I did NOT think about it, my standing up alignment was naturally using my vision center, where I line up the shot with my left eye (right-handed). When I was *trying* to line up, my face was more square to the shot, and I was looking at it via the center of my nose. So, I then forced myself to NOT force alignment, and try aligning naturally. Some shots I had to step away from the table, spin around, then readdress the shot, reminding myself to be as natural as possible.
Started making my straight-in reference shot again, dead nuts on center of the pocket.
Moral of the story? Yes, alignment is paramount. I only hope I can make my natural alignment more, um, natural, and stop subconsciously trying so hard to align myself to the point where I was UN-aligning myself. Just another thing to put in my mental checklist when things start going sideways (literally! LOL). Sorry for long post. PS Great thread.
i'm talking about when you say that you played with a certain head position for years and everything looked lined up but in reality the butt of the cue was aiming offline.
if you have verified that you were getting down with that exact head position each time then that's good, i'm just not sure how would you verify it precisely when your head is way above the cue,without a reference point (chin touching the cue),
I've tried playing with my head lower in the past. I'm not at all confident that I had the alignment correct when the head was low, but maybe. It's kind of a moot point because I can't shoot like that anyway. I know the eye position is consistent from video and using the Coach's Eye app to draw lines and see exact positions. This is for straight in shots only. I think once you expect to see a certain "shot picture" when you get down on the shot anything that differs from that is immediately apparent and causes you to move to the "expected" position, if that makes sense. Just a theory.
I also think it is possible that we get tricked by our perception of the grip hand position. When down on the shot we can really only see a small portion of the cue relative to it's full length. Maybe we perceive our grip hand to be on the shot line when it isn't and that helps fool the eye into thinking everything is lined up.
ok, got it.yes i agree that we can get tricked especially if you use a short bridge length, you can see a very small portion of the cue.