OK. Stop the video before you take your first step. Where is your head in relation to the shot line at that point? Where is the shot line in relation to your shoulders? It looks like you're facing the shot and it looks like the line is centered under your head and directly between both shoulders as you are viewing the the shot before you step into your stance. Am I right? I don't see you leaning to your right or turning towards your right at that point. Right?
Cue alignment???
- Thread starter HelpMeScrubs0013
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HelpMeScrubs0013
Active member
Yea I tried putting the shot line more to the right under my right eye. I'm right eye dominant but still got the same results cue angled inward.
My point is that when you take your first step, you're not bringing that back foot on to the shot line. It's starting out outside the shot line, which is why your cue is coming in at an angle. I wrote this to you before. If you're going to straddle the shot line when you're standing upright, then you can't take a normal first step. Your first step with your back foot needs to be more to the left.
HelpMeScrubs0013
Active member
I've even used that tape few times on ground an my foot always on the line but when I squat down an bend my right leg I think that's what throws it off the line just enough. Prolly why I see most pros keep there right leg pretty straight.
WobblyStroke
Well-known member
Bert Kinister's method for finding and building ur stance around your natural hang alignment is one of the best I've come across and may help you out. In this vid he recommends you make 10 in a row one handed using this method but really, u can just build your setup around this alignmwnt that is suited to u. Worth a try.
Maybe, but I suspect there's something else that you're doing that you haven't picked up on yet. Keep taking videos of yourself at different angles and study them. Something may jump out at you.
I tried that method of Bert's once, and intuitively it makes sense, especially for one-handed play. But if it was that important, I don't think you'd see nearly every snooker player using a very square stance.
I'm not sure how your hand hangs with your arm straight down is that relevant to how it hangs when your shoulder and elbow are in shooting position. For me, standing straight up and holding a cue at its balance point in my right hand naturally, the cue angle inwards at almost a 45º angle. But as soon as I start bending forward from the waist, it starts pointing forwards more, around 25º from straight forward. Then, as I lift my elbow up high in shooting position, the cue naturally straightens up and points straight forward.
Perhaps it's more important to guys with a very upright old-school stance (which makes sense considering when Bert put that video out). I put my chin on the cue, and can play with both a snooker stance or very angled pool stance just fine. I've settled on somewhere in the middle.
WobblyStroke
Well-known member
Ye what snooker players do is somewhat different and they do have the lower body twist that Bert doesn't like.. It's probably the best way overall imo and can work at many angles. Bert's is up there tho. nitpicking 2nd or 3rd best method imo. I use it as a quick way to fix gaudy alignments and like Bert, have found that everyone can get their joints aligned this way.
As u mention, it is a great fit for more upright stances and really any stroke that incorporates the shoulder.
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You might try starting with your grip hand aligned on the shot line while standing and then just rotate your whole body so the cue is pointed down the shot line....bend over dropping the cue on the shot line.....
You look to be pretty strong right eye dominant...you have an advantage of a natural alignment (cue straight) check.......Use the line on the side rail between the cushion and the rail as a guide....Use a couple pieces of chalk directly on the line to simulate a CB and OB.....get in your shooting position like your are shooting one piece into the other down the rail line.
For you since you appear right eye dominant....Close your left eye and look directly down....you should see the cue but not be able to see any part of the line....if you can...your cue is crooked (coming in at a slant)
You look to be pretty strong right eye dominant...you have an advantage of a natural alignment (cue straight) check.......Use the line on the side rail between the cushion and the rail as a guide....Use a couple pieces of chalk directly on the line to simulate a CB and OB.....get in your shooting position like your are shooting one piece into the other down the rail line.
For you since you appear right eye dominant....Close your left eye and look directly down....you should see the cue but not be able to see any part of the line....if you can...your cue is crooked (coming in at a slant)
skiergd011013
Well-known member
Certainly so. I stand on the line of centers between CB and OB to start the typical aim process, body perpendicular to that line and feet equidistant from the shot line, then as far as my body, as a right-handed player, it's:
1) The right foot comes in toward my behind to angle on the shot line
2) The left foot comes up a step parallel to the shot line
3) Etc.
There are more details involved so we can talk about your personal process, but I'm working with a student currently on their PSR so that their right hand makes the shortest, cleanest route to position the cue stick from its natural position, pointed to the left of the shot line.
pagaspoling
Member
You are placing your feet and cue and hand down in to the shot. If you look at any good players you will see that they move down in to the shot. The step forward with the front foot is happening at the same time as the bridge hand lands on the table. It will be very hard for you to get down on the line with so many different movements, one placing your right foot, one step to place the left, a big airstroke to place the cue and torso. Right now you barely have no flow at all.
Any tips from here wont help, they will just put more ideas into your head and make your movements even more unrhythmic. A good way to practice to really move into the shot is to stand behind the shot then give yourself maybe 2-3 seconds to move down and shoot the shot. If you start making balls this way I can guarantee that you are getting down on the shot correctly and with the bonus of not having so much time to think, just feel. Getting down in your stance have to be an automatic process, there is so many different shots in pool and your setup is constantly changing. Good setup is not mechanics its a feeling.
Do not try the Bert Kinister method though! It has to be one of the worst ideas when it comes to pool technique..
why?
WobblyStroke
Well-known member
bahahahaha ok. enlighten us
You're telling him that he's "placing" his feet and hands instead of "moving?" I think maybe you may have taken that golf episode of I Love Lucy a little too literally. Entire body movement is not part of the shooting process, like it is with bowling, for example. It's part of the pre shot routine. With pool, there are different ways to approach a shot that gets you into your desired shooting stance.
I just had a brief chat with Bert, who I consider a good friend. Since his video is a few decades old, I wanted to ask him if he still felt the same way about his approach methodology. He said that he did. I don't necessarily agree with everything he said, but his approach coincides with where Bert feels a player should stand relative to the shot line. I prefer to face the shot a bit more. Does that make Bert wrong? NO. Does that make me wrong? NO.
Thorsten also teaches approach the same way as Bert, which I believe he got from the time he spent with Bert.
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pagaspoling
Member
So instead of have the arm hanging down, you bend it so that the cue touches you chin as it is while down on the shot. Almost all of this angle that Bert shows while standing square to the shot will be gone. Be having the arm fully extended you will severely exaggerate the small angle the between the arm and the torso.
Another way to think about it is to go down in your stance and freeze the position of your arms in relation to your torso and then stand up. This is how we are positioned while down on the shot and it have nothing in common with the standing up with a hanging arm position that Bert wants us to line up to the shot line. The two different positions are so different anyway so theres really nothing other than maybe the back foot that will be in a similar position both standing and down in the shot. The eyes will be in the same plane but will drop down quite a bit when getting in to the stance. Berts method doesn't even put the eyes on the shot line behind the shot and already there it fails as a reasonable way to get into the shot.
Another way to think about it is to go down in your stance and freeze the position of your arms in relation to your torso and then stand up. This is how we are positioned while down on the shot and it have nothing in common with the standing up with a hanging arm position that Bert wants us to line up to the shot line. The two different positions are so different anyway so theres really nothing other than maybe the back foot that will be in a similar position both standing and down in the shot. The eyes will be in the same plane but will drop down quite a bit when getting in to the stance. Berts method doesn't even put the eyes on the shot line behind the shot and already there it fails as a reasonable way to get into the shot.
pagaspoling
Member
If you want to keep your head on the shot line while moving down you have to be a little more fluent and manage you balance a bit better than he currently does. Most good players have a swift fluent movement that let them stay balanced while moving down into the shot I just wanted to give him an idea on how to practice in a way that creates a bit more fluency and flow.
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pagaspoling
Member
Thanks. Never heard it used that way.
Guess I’m not as fluent in English as I thought.
pj
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