Cue Ball Deflection and Bob Meucci

Mikjary

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here is a conversation by Bob Meucci in 1999 about his opinion on cue ball deflection.

DEFLECTION

Written in 1999

It has come to my attention that the term "deflection," which we introduced in 1976 through our Meucci literature and through the professional ranks, has now taken on a different and very incorrect meaning. Deflection had always been clearly understood to mean cue ball deflection.

Whether through misinformation or as a result of not educating the new generation of pool players, deflection has now become falsely understood to mean the deflection of the cue shaft away from the cue ball as it strikes it or even the flexibility of the cue shaft itself. So, it is time to once again clear the air and re-educate the industry about cue ball deflection.

As a result of years of research and development, studying the hit of a pool cue, by using high-speed photography, the following information on cue ball deflection emerged as the industry standard.

Cue ball deflection occurs when the cue ball is struck off-center as when "English" or "side spin" is applied to the shot. This causes the ball to take a path off-angle, veering in the opposite direction from the side on which it was struck. In other words, strike the cue ball left of center and it will deflect off course to the right of the direction established by the alignment of the shaft.

Cue ball deflection will vary from very little (1/8 of an inch in the span of 8 feet) to a whopping 1 1/2 inches in the same span. These variations are a result of three factors;
1. How far off center the cue ball is struck (left or right); the more off center,
the more deflection.
2. The hardness of the surface striking the ball (tip & ferrule) creating varying levels of shock.
3. How much force is used when the ball is struck. The more force applied by speed of stroke, the greater the deflection.
Therefore, when selecting a cue for maximum deflection (which is highly undesirable in my opinion), get one with a stiffly-tapered shaft and a soft tip (13 1/2mm or larger). It should also have a very hard ferrule such as ivory or a phenolic resin type material and a stiff butt-joint such as steel.

Strike the cue ball off-center 3/8 of an inch; hit it hard and you’ll get maximum deflection. The cue ball will veer off-path from the direction the shaft is pointed by 1 1/2 inches in an 8 ft. span, missing the entire object ball when aiming center to center.

Obviously, any player, given enough time, can program his mental computer to make allowances for all deflection variations, if he is playing all the time and in perfect stroke. He can get by with it. In reality, the player has unwittingly handicapped himself.

Through an evolution of trial and error, players in the past discovered inexplicably that they could play better with a smaller mm tip. They dealt with poorly designed cues made with ivory ferrules, steel joints, and improper tapers by reducing the shaft size down to as small as 12mm, they put some flex back into the shaft and unknowingly reduced deflection; unfortunately, at the same time to some degree they also lost the ability to make long shots by having less tip surface and less control, which is only accomplished by using a larger tip.

At Meucci Originals, our focus has always been first and foremost the play of the cue. Secondly, a tasteful design and value for the dollar spent. With that in mind, it should be easy to understand why we designed a shaft with a special Pro-Taper to dramatically reduce deflection yet still enable a full tip size of 12 3/4 mm to 13 1/8 mm to give more control.

If you are looking for minimum cue ball deflection, you will need a cue with a soft/flexible ferrule which will absorb shock and allow the tip to wipe across the ball. The cue should also have a flexible shaft and a plastic joint. All to accomplish two purposes:
1. To increase English velocity by the compression of the flexible shaft at the moment of impact.2. To reduce deflection to its absolute minimum by carrying the shock wave from the tip down the shaft through the flexible joint and out the butt of the cue, thus allowing the chalk particles to stay in contact with the cue ball surface for a longer duration of time.
To test this for yourself, find a cue with a 13 1/2 mm stiffly-tapered shaft with an ivory ferrule or a very hard surfaced ferrule and a stiff joint. Put an object ball on the spot and the cue ball in the center of the table on the foul line. Strike the cue ball 3/8 inches off-center but keep the shaft on line or parallel for a straight-on, center to center hit (not using tuck or throw of course). Hit the cue ball firmly and you will probably cut the object ball 90 degrees or miss the object ball completely. Perform the same exercise with a 4-point Meucci cue and you will cut the object ball off the straight line to the end diamond by no more than 1 1/2 inch, which would still be within the error allowed in a 4 1/2 inch pocket with a 2 1/4 inch object ball.



Best,
Mike
 
And extensive studies since then have shown him to be wrong on a number of points. But without his first testing, we might not know what we do today.
 
I've owned a few cues with ivory ferrules and steel joints that hit like crap. One was a beautiful Szam, but I couldn't get used to the hit and ended up selling it a few weeks later to another player in the room. He sold it shortly to another player and eventually half a dozen guys had owned it in the room. They said it hit like crap, too. :grin-square:

Best,
Mike
 
And extensive studies since then have shown him to be wrong on a number of points. But without his first testing, we might not know what we do today.

Why a Meucci Power Piston?
By Bob Meucci
http://ezinearticles.com/?Why-a-Meucci-Power-Piston?&id=58414

In those line... here's his 2005 article on the Meucci 'Power Piston' logic. Notice the comparison is to his other 'more lower' performance Meucci cues in the article. And this is only briefly mentioned at the beginning of this drawn out explanation of the Power Piston 'therory'. Most of the content seem tangential to the missing measured evidence needed for analysis. Pretty presumptive claim

All things being equal in front of the joint collar-tip end- how does one perform quantitative analysis (double blind study) on 'a thin sleeve of high-impact (1 inch) plastic material (epoxied on) over a maple dowel' without differentiation in the industry and offer it up as statistically significant? I mean the butt cap density (and epoxy brand) all connecting screws, the bumper tightness (glued in/shoved in /or even missing) and whether or not the cue has a finish 0-3mm thick contributes to the cue butts compression 'frequency'... all of which effect 'joint component' compress-ability depending on the mass inputs. Everything in front of the joint must be held 'static' (ie made of titanium) for the reference to be measured at the joint. Without a scientific measure as a standard, 'claims made' need to be approached with caution.

We all can understand and feel the shaft construction differences, tip construction and hit differences, joint pin/sleeves verses pins to wood etc, plastic pins to sleeves/ wood, and the resonating qualities we all enjoy about the differences in a cue's hit. Not so sure the 'Power Piston' theory has a measurable significance as once claimed.

I'm not saying I don't enjoy playing with my OL1's (I do:wink:), just that all hype isn't always constructive. Representatives in any industry need to verify conjecture before pitch the sale.

Randy


The term Squirt... (not 'cue ball deflection') might have been helpful when referencing shaft deflection characteristics early on.
 
anyone remember when predator made a robot arm to prove deflection and meucci showed up with something that looked like he made it at a junk yard to the expo to show his sill red dot shafts were low deflection. lol extensive research my ass.
 
One was a beautiful Szam, but I couldn't get used to the hit and ended up selling it a few weeks later to another player in the room. He sold it shortly to another player and eventually half a dozen guys had owned it in the room. They said it hit like crap, too. :grin-square:

Best,
Mike

Those "half a dozen guys in the room" never thought to hit a few balls with it before spending a wad of cash on a "crappy-hitting" cue??? :rolleyes:

I mean....they apparently were right there in the pool hall with the previous cue's owner, right???

Poolplayers....not the sharpest tools in the shed, eh?

Just sayin'........:grin:

Maniac
 
Those "half a dozen guys in the room" never thought to hit a few balls with it before spending a wad of cash on a "crappy-hitting" cue??? :rolleyes:

I mean....they apparently were right there in the pool hall with the previous cue's owner, right???

Poolplayers....not the sharpest tools in the shed, eh?

Just sayin'........:grin:

Maniac

I'd say it was the heat of the moment that influenced our questionable decisions. :D When a top notch repped cue comes along, I figured it was supposed to be the way a cue should hit. Though it felt different, I tried to get used to it. After all, what did I know about a great hitting cue?

I'd always bought the production models and thought it was time to upgrade my equipment and maybe my game, too. I gave it a couple of weeks and basked in the glory and admiration of my fellow players for having, THE CUE. That soon wore off when I started losing my cash and finally admitted to myself I just didn't like the chosen weapon anymore and never did.

Eventually the other guys admitted the same thing and we all got a big laugh out of it. But, when you look at what the value of a Szam is today, it's not so funny! :D

Best,
Mike
 
Meucci's answer to this was to produce a ton of garbage that was best used for kindling. The whole thing with Meucci was the smoke and mirrors of promotion and selling a cheap product to players who didn't play well enough to know better.
 
Those "half a dozen guys in the room" never thought to hit a few balls with it before spending a wad of cash on a "crappy-hitting" cue??? :rolleyes:

I mean....they apparently were right there in the pool hall with the previous cue's owner, right???

Poolplayers....not the sharpest tools in the shed, eh?

Just sayin'........:grin:

Maniac
Thats not not that strange. You can play with a cue in practice and knock in balls and feel it is pretty good. Then you try to play with it for real and all the little things you hate about the cue come to the forefront. As the cue doesn't respond as you expect your confidence plummets.

I had a Schuler pool cue like that. Almost everyone who picked it up thought it felt good. You could stab in long straight in shots and make thin cuts and so on. Then you try to actually play with the cue and you feel what is wrong. It had no feel, you could not play position with the cue with any accuracy. It was amazing it was like someone was screwing with your stroke as you tried to control the cue ball.
 
Thats not not that strange. You can play with a cue in practice and knock in balls and feel it is pretty good. Then you try to play with it for real and all the little things you hate about the cue come to the forefront. As the cue doesn't respond as you expect your confidence plummets.

I had a Schuler pool cue like that. Almost everyone who picked it up thought it felt good. You could stab in long straight in shots and make thin cuts and so on. Then you try to actually play with the cue and you feel what is wrong. It had no feel, you could not play position with the cue with any accuracy. It was amazing it was like someone was screwing with your stroke as you tried to control the cue ball.

My first custom cue was a Schuler which took Ray about a year to make. It was a stiff hitting cue like the low deflection shafts create today.

It was a straight shooter and my practice was elevated because I was pocketing more balls when I set up drills. The experience didn't carry over to my 9 ball game when I tried to consistently change speeds and spins, though I tried for a while. My position game suffered, so I went back to what I was used to using.

Best,
Mike
 
Thats not not that strange. You can play with a cue in practice and knock in balls and feel it is pretty good. Then you try to play with it for real and all the little things you hate about the cue come to the forefront. As the cue doesn't respond as you expect your confidence plummets.


Yeah...that's true, but don't you at least think the last 2 or 3 guys that bought that cue should have had some serious suspicions about the playability of it after it changed hands like it was a live hand grenade??? :grin-square:

Maniac
 
To explain low deflection shafts to other players that come over I explain the lack of weight at the end of the shaft and have them hit a shot at the piece of chalk at the end of the table leaning over the rail and knock it off.

Then I have them try with a cheap cue that I've applied vice grips to the end of the shaft. The cue ball deflects a diamond. I saw this done on a video but I can't remember who made the vid


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Those "half a dozen guys in the room" never thought to hit a few balls with it before spending a wad of cash on a "crappy-hitting" cue??? :rolleyes:

I mean....they apparently were right there in the pool hall with the previous cue's owner, right???

Poolplayers....not the sharpest tools in the shed, eh?

Just sayin'........:grin:

Maniac

They bought it because it said "Szam", not because it hit great. Get your priorities straight, man! JK! LOL!
 
Didn't a lot of 80s-90s pros play with those? Maybe won a few games with them? Maybe a tournament or two? :wink:

Yeah Meucci had a whole list of players they paid to play with their cues and they were the best of the time. The truth is, it's not the cue, most great players can get there with a decent cue and some like Efren can do it with what appeared to be a Kmart special in the early 80's.
 
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