Cue joint questions?
- Thread starter racer rx
- Start date
Not just extreme English but the overall hit is effected.
Examples
Full ivory, sleeved ivory, phenolic, sleeved phenolic.
All hit different.
I can think of atleast 5 cuemakers using stainless joints, every one hits different.
You have to understand the overall picture.
Joints, joint pins, splice bolt, inserts if used in the shafts, It all makes a difference and it all effects the hit,.
Examples
Full ivory, sleeved ivory, phenolic, sleeved phenolic.
All hit different.
I can think of atleast 5 cuemakers using stainless joints, every one hits different.
You have to understand the overall picture.
Joints, joint pins, splice bolt, inserts if used in the shafts, It all makes a difference and it all effects the hit,.
drivermaker
Banned
Michael Webb said:
I'm certainly not a cuemaker and never tried disecting one like a dead frog, but I definitely believe what Mike is saying here. I've tried too many cues without end mass, with end mass, with one type of joint or joint collar and others, different ferrules and tips, different weights, etc. and good things or squirrelly things can come out of each of them. I am not convinced that it's end mass alone as the Ph.D.'s like to write about or the Predator conspiracy.
Snapshot9 said:
Any joint costructed well, will hold up for years, but hit is subjective to personal preference. That's exactly how it should be to, personal preference.
rokudan said:
I ran this experiment two years ago with our local Predator Guru (Joe Tucker)
4 cues all built by me, same joint pin, all different joint material. one shaft. Everyone hit different,
Everything is subjective to personal feel.
Apples, oranges, who wants a banana.
Michael Webb said:
Mike, when you say, "hit different", just what do you mean? That each cue, although using the same shaft, felt like different cues or was the "shot" itself affected as far as cue ball squirt and amount of juice transmitted to the cueball? I'm sure that any change in a cues basic construction : joints, ferrules, pins, weight etc. will have an affect on the way a cue feels on each shot and I can see where some of this criteria may have an affect on how much juice is applied to the cue-ball but in your experiments, was there any change in the amount of cue-ball squirt?
Dick
csf914 said:
I agree that you need a stroke to move the CB... However, I do believe that different set ups work better or worse for a particular person depending on the timing of thier stroke.
I am no physics expert, but my guess is that when a cue is struck to a CB, the cue has some give in it... shaft bend , tip compression, joint compression......(similar to the effects of a golf club)....after compression, there is a spring like release effect from the cue...(exaggerating of course)....but that release timed with your stroke is what puts that "pop" on the CB....When the timing of your stroke matches the timing of the release of the cue...that is when you get that "pure" hit.......You can change your stroke timing to match the cue timing...but the cue that fits "your" stroke timing the best is the one you will be able to apply the most effortless english on the CB.....(Just one of my whackey observations)
I believe that is why there are many people that cant' "pin" the exact setup of a cue that they want....Even win you nail down the right set up...it can be a different hit since the wood in each shaft is "slightly" different...
That is where the evolution of synthetic shafts will dominate in the future...They will be able to create a more consistent shaft...
Guru said:
John McChesney, who died in the last few years, described a while ago an interesting experiment he did 14 years ago."
John's words:
**********
Here's something interesting we tried in 1991:
At an event we had 16 cues with the butt, joint and the ferrules covered with masking tape...then numbered. No one could "see" if the cue was a steel, plastic or wood joint (as in a Pete), nor detect by the style of ferrule.
We had 70 players...each hit balls with the cues throughout the weekend.
The results: Of nearly 800 attempts over the time period, the players guessed wrong about what type joint was in the cue more than 7 out of 10 times. A top pro (Meucci staffer) happened to be there, having done an exhibition and the cue he liked the most during the attempts:
He thought was surely a Meucci, plastic joint when in reality it was an older
Adams with a piloted steel joint; and additionally guessed the Meucci he shot with as a cue with a steel joint. Again, I maintain that cues with different joint materials may sound differently; may be balanced differently, but what is "hit" ? Doesn't "hit" have to do with all the senses: Vibration (feel), sound, balance, etc. What is a "soft" hit? *What is a "hard" hit? (what does this mean, if not the sound the cue makes upon impact, or are people ref. to the vibration in the butt?) Does a hard hit vibrate more and make a different sound? A soft hit vibrate less with a different sound? I maintain that the primary criteria that differentiates one cue from another begins with:
>The tip (soft, med or hard)
>The shaft diameter and density of the wood
>The taper (or stiffness of the shaft)
To this day, I still don't believe the joint has much to do with the
reaction of the cueball off the shaft, rather it is the 3 aforementioned that have far more bearing on how a cue plays than anything else. Remember, what makes the predator shaft play differently is what is located at the tip, inside the shaft, the ferrule and the laminations....not the joint or butt.
In closing, our experiment asked which cue the players liked best: Of the 70 players, nearly 55 liked the hit of two cues with different numbers:
When the two were exposed, they both were sneaky petes, wood to wood joints, (one a Scruggs and the other a Huebler); both about 19 oz., both about 13 1/4mm and tended to be on the stiff side of "hit". *By the way, the 55 who liked the hit of these two cues: more than half thought they would be steel jointed.
*************
mike page
fargo
Wood Density
SCCues
I agree with you completely. 2 shafts with exactly the same taper, ferrule, & tip will normally vary slightly in weight and density and because one may be heavier or more dense it will play stiffer. I've heard many pool players say they prefer one of the two shafts that came with their cue over their other shaft and it's probably because one of them is lighter than the other shaft. Sometimes you get lucky and you have two shafts that play close to the same, but they probably weigh about the same and are close in density.pillage6 said:
SCCues
You can check this density 2 ways, either by eye and seeing how many growth rings are present or by bouncing the shafts on the table. I don't mean on the tip, but as they lay on the table as if you would roll them you pick up either end maybe 2-3" above the felt and let them drop. Usually the shaft with the higher pitched resonance will hit "better" or more solid. But tip hardness might sway the feel one way or another when actually hitting with it.
Let me put it this way ...
Take screwing for example -
If she looks good and feels good, it is a better experience
than if she just feels good .... because then you have to turn out
the lights, and you never talk about it afterwards .... lol
It's kind of like going out with a blonde, when you prefer redheads.
mikepage said:
Take screwing for example -
If she looks good and feels good, it is a better experience
than if she just feels good .... because then you have to turn out
the lights, and you never talk about it afterwards .... lol
It's kind of like going out with a blonde, when you prefer redheads.