Regarding the length most seem to be the same, collars included. Then there are some that are shorter with smaller collars. Is there a standard size for joints and collars, and if so what are the shorter ones called.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Cue Joints
- Thread starter YubaCushion
- Start date
You can use any size you want until it starts creating a possible failure. Lots of joints are 1" there about, some 3/4" and short ones 1/2 joint.
Mario
While we're on the subject
On the handle side of the joint, you want to stagger the points where the pin ends in the forearm and
the end of the ring-stack below the joint collar. Otherwise, you're creating a shear condition.
.625" tenon - .375" pin bore (divided by 2) = .125" wood wall thickness securing the joint & shaft to the rest of the cue.
The further you can stagger those points, the stronger the joint becomes and the shear factor starts to diminish.
It will always be there but to a lesser degree.
On the shaft side of the joint, the same problem exists there as well and the numbers are even more disconcerting.
When the depth of the insert (if the shaft has one) is at or near the top of the ring-stack, you again have a shear condition.
.625" tenon - .4375" insert bore (divided by 2) = .09375" wood wall thickness securing the shaft to the cue.
Stagger those two points and the problem starts to go away. Or, use a 1-1/2 to 2" long phenolic insert and there is no problem.
I'm currently building a custom Predator shaft for a client whose ring-stack is the tallest I've ever encountered @ .795".
If the intended cue were a 14 or 18 thrd. with a std 1"L brass insert, I would have some concern, particularly if it were piloted.
Since it's a 10 thrd. and the client has opted for the pheno insert, there is no concern.
Assuming that any of this is correct, what else can we discern about the joint area?
Pin and insert length in relation to tenon length are critical factors, but what else?
I'm going to suggest that the shorter the joint collar, the stronger the joint is overall. Same for the shaft.
That 1" stainless joint collar with it's 1-1/4 oz of dead wght. may look impressive but
it adds nothing to the strength of the joint. As a matter of fact, it may weaken the structure.
It's 1" length + the 1/2" or so of rings below it brings you just that much closer to your shear point.
Now is where you want to be concerned with the depth you're setting your pins.
So again, the shorter the jnt. collar, the stronger the structure.
I'll take a 3/8" pheno collar over a 1" SS in a heartbeat.
A no collar joint is even worse and again this applies to both handle and shaft.
The pin can become a lever within the wood and there is nothing to corral it, no band. No, a pilot doesn't help.
Well, I hope this has been as interesting as I've perceived it to be but if not, I've enjoyed our time together.
KJ
On the handle side of the joint, you want to stagger the points where the pin ends in the forearm and
the end of the ring-stack below the joint collar. Otherwise, you're creating a shear condition.
.625" tenon - .375" pin bore (divided by 2) = .125" wood wall thickness securing the joint & shaft to the rest of the cue.
The further you can stagger those points, the stronger the joint becomes and the shear factor starts to diminish.
It will always be there but to a lesser degree.
On the shaft side of the joint, the same problem exists there as well and the numbers are even more disconcerting.
When the depth of the insert (if the shaft has one) is at or near the top of the ring-stack, you again have a shear condition.
.625" tenon - .4375" insert bore (divided by 2) = .09375" wood wall thickness securing the shaft to the cue.
Stagger those two points and the problem starts to go away. Or, use a 1-1/2 to 2" long phenolic insert and there is no problem.
I'm currently building a custom Predator shaft for a client whose ring-stack is the tallest I've ever encountered @ .795".
If the intended cue were a 14 or 18 thrd. with a std 1"L brass insert, I would have some concern, particularly if it were piloted.
Since it's a 10 thrd. and the client has opted for the pheno insert, there is no concern.
Assuming that any of this is correct, what else can we discern about the joint area?
Pin and insert length in relation to tenon length are critical factors, but what else?
I'm going to suggest that the shorter the joint collar, the stronger the joint is overall. Same for the shaft.
That 1" stainless joint collar with it's 1-1/4 oz of dead wght. may look impressive but
it adds nothing to the strength of the joint. As a matter of fact, it may weaken the structure.
It's 1" length + the 1/2" or so of rings below it brings you just that much closer to your shear point.
Now is where you want to be concerned with the depth you're setting your pins.
So again, the shorter the jnt. collar, the stronger the structure.
I'll take a 3/8" pheno collar over a 1" SS in a heartbeat.
A no collar joint is even worse and again this applies to both handle and shaft.
The pin can become a lever within the wood and there is nothing to corral it, no band. No, a pilot doesn't help.
Well, I hope this has been as interesting as I've perceived it to be but if not, I've enjoyed our time together.
KJ
Thank you, that was great info.