Custom Cue Differences

[vivalaraza]

there are many, many cuemakers out there today; a lot more than just a few years ago. many of the cues can get very pricey. they come in a variety of woods (birdseye, curly maple, cocobolo, bacote, rosewood, tulipwood, etc.) and have a variety of accessories (ivory, silver, turqoise, just about anything).

my question is this:

ALL good custom cues are made out of the same things. they all are wood and screws and glue. is there really a difference in quality as far as the good cuemakers go? i know that price doesn't really have that much to do with quality of the cue; it is the rarity and the supply and demand.

example:

i play with a russ espiritu. it is just a plain jane bacote with curly maple wrap. it has the 5/16 x 14 stainless joint pin. now russ offers the G 14(?) pin that joe gold uses in his cogs. if i got an espiritu with that pin and got it in a very light weight (which is what i prefer), how much difference would there be in the quality and performance of it?

there is someone on here who posted pics of an espiritu with that pin. hopefully, he can settle this.

 

[gforces1911]

there are many, many cuemakers out there today; a lot more than just a few years ago. many of the cues can get very pricey. they come in a variety of woods (birdseye, curly maple, cocobolo, bacote, rosewood, tulipwood, etc.) and have a variety of accessories (ivory, silver, turqoise, just about anything).

my question is this:

ALL good custom cues are made out of the same things. they all are wood and screws and glue. is there really a difference in quality as far as the good cuemakers go? i know that price doesn't really have that much to do with quality of the cue; it is the rarity and the supply and demand.

example:

i play with a russ espiritu. it is just a plain jane bacote with curly maple wrap. it has the 5/16 x 14 stainless joint pin. now russ offers the G 14(?) pin that joe gold uses in his cogs. if i got an espiritu with that pin and got it in a very light weight (which is what i prefer), how much difference would there be in the quality and performance of it?

there is someone on here who posted pics of an espiritu with that pin. hopefully, he can settle this.

All cars are made of metal and fiberglass is there a difference between different makes of cars?

 

[Purdman]

is there really a difference in quality as far as the good cuemakers go?


You better bet your ass there is! Finish, balance, taper, and playability. Espiritu's hit stiff, I know, I have had 11 of them. What the new pin will do, I don't know. A whole lot depends on what you call a GOOD cuemaker. Today, most just put the wood in and push a button on their comp. for the inlays and pockets. You could do it.
Purdman

 

[vivalaraza]

All cars are made of metal and fiberglass is there a difference between different makes of cars?

i don't think you can make a correlation between making cars and making cues. cars are VERY complex in their compostions and they are changing all the time at a rapid pace. the engine alone is beyond the realm of most people's understanding. i ain't talking about someone who can identify the parts and do small repairs. it takes damn near a scientist with these new cars and they get more advanced every year.


you probably could have made this comparison back in the 1910's when all cars were made of the same things.


i think know what you mean though. all hamburgers are ground beef but there is a difference to me between resturants.

 

[BRKNRUN]

i don't think you can make a correlation between making cars and making cues. cars are VERY complex in their compostions and they are changing all the time at a rapid pace. the engine alone is beyond the realm of most people's understanding. i ain't talking about someone who can identify the parts and do small repairs. it takes damn near a scientist with these new cars and they get more advanced every year.


you probably could have made this comparison back in the 1910's when all cars were made of the same things.


i think know what you mean though. all hamburgers are ground beef but there is a difference to me between resturants.

Are you sure about that???

 

[Doug]

Custom cue differences

If you took a poll, and there have been many on this forum, and selected the top, say, 25 choices then had each cuemaker make you a cue you would have 25 beautiful well made cues with virtually no difference, if any, in quality, finish etc. But allow 25 pool players to evaluate them and you would be no closer to having your question answered than before you submitted it. The answer is too subjective. The correct answer, IMO, is there would be no wrong choices just different opinions so any cue you select is the right cue----- for someone.

 

[vivalaraza]

Are you sure about that???

yeah you're right. i forgot about jack in the box and white castle.

 

[cubswin]

Just my humble opinion. I think that from a playability stand point you can find a lot of well made custom cues. Many of the cuemakers out there today really make a fine hitting cue. The differences you see are in points, veneers, recut points, type of finish, taper of shafts, joints, and even how well the design of the cue looks.

When you hit top tier cue makers you tend to find very nice point work, reputation for a good hit (wether its true or not..when you pay 2k and up you probably are going to swear it hits good), beautiful designed inlays, long waits, and good resale values.

Go with the a lesser know cue maker you may get everything but the long waits and the resale value.

 

[PoolSleuth]

Just my humble opinion. I think that from a playability stand point you can find a lot of well made custom cues. Many of the cuemakers out there today really make a fine hitting cue. The differences you see are in points, veneers, recut points, type of finish, taper of shafts, joints, and even how well the design of the cue looks.

When you hit top tier cue makers you tend to find very nice point work, reputation for a good hit (wether its true or not..when you pay 2k and up you probably are going to swear it hits good), beautiful designed inlays, long waits, and good resale values.

Go with the a lesser know cue maker you may get everything but the long waits and the resale value.

Above makes a whole lot of sense.

 

[96supersport]

The CNC vs. Pantograph Debate

First off, I'm sorry for jacking the thread, but this is one of the topics that really gets to me.

Whether CNC or pantograph, the same basic things are happening, a pattern is being followed, either a physical template, or an electronic one. The quality of inlays, most often judged by how sharp or round they are, has nothing to do with how the inlays are cut. The smaller the cutter, the sharper the initial pocket or inlay will be. The really sharp inlays made with either method are all done by hand. The goal of both techniques is to have a repeatable setup and result. The same holds true for butt and shaft tapers. The cuemakers goal is to get the same result every time. If you don't like the way that reslult plays, that's fine, it's not for you.

I work making jet engines, and as you can imagine, most of our machines are CNC. But like cuemaking, there is a tremendous amount of work that goes into preparing the parts for the CNC machine, and finishing them once they come out.

CNC machines are used in cuemaking almost exclusively in the finishing stages, i.e. tapering and inlays. The initial turnings, tenons, joints, and assembly are all done by hand using manual machines and good old fashined manual labor.

Regardless of how cuemakers execute their work, I've seen both good and bad examples of CNC and pantograph, and I wouldn't hesitate to buy a cue made either way.

Again, I'm sorry for jacking the thread, but the fact is that you can't go out and buy a CNC machine that will churn out quality cues one after the other. We all know quality when we see it, so lets not crap all over a group of cuemakers for using CNC, there is so much more to it than that.

 

[cubswin]

Above makes a whole lot of sense.

why thank you...


I personally like the lesser known cuemakers, have found two that make cues that hit how I like. Probably going to pick up a Skip Weston before long just because he still sells cues at a reasonable price and think he will end up have a great resale value in 5 years.

Find my griffin (madison bob) and dzuricky cues hit very nicely. Not well known cuemakers, but they both make a great cue. Couldn't get my money back out of the griffin, but then its not for sale.

 

[gforces1911]

many theories as well

i don't think you can make a correlation between making cars and making cues. cars are VERY complex in their compostions and they are changing all the time at a rapid pace. the engine alone is beyond the realm of most people's understanding. i ain't talking about someone who can identify the parts and do small repairs. it takes damn near a scientist with these new cars and they get more advanced every year.


you probably could have made this comparison back in the 1910's when all cars were made of the same things.


i think know what you mean though. all hamburgers are ground beef but there is a difference to me between resturants.

I did not mean to be glib. There is an art to it.

 

[vivalaraza]

I did not mean to be glib. There is an art to it.

this is different than what you were talking about but,

i remember one time a friend and i were at the local room. there was this older guy in there who everybody looks up to as being the authority on everything. anyways, my friend is a cue afficienado (sp?) and he really knows his sh*t. he posts on here all the time and spends a lot of time in the "ask the cuemaker" section. so my friend plays with a bob runde schon and some people in there were giving him sh*t about paying over $1000 for a cue when he could get one a lot cheaper. they play with meucci and mcdermott and joss. my friend said that there is no comparison between a high-production cue and a hand-made custom cue.

the know-it-all stands up and says that he is full of it. he says that mass production is the key to high quality. he said this is how the car manufacturers like gm and ford make so many vehicles and keep their quality up. we argued with him that mass production may take a little away from quality but to no avail. you know how some people are; or maybe we were wrong.

 

[Flex]

this is different than what you were talking about but,

i remember one time a friend and i were at the local room. there was this older guy in there who everybody looks up to as being the authority on everything. anyways, my friend is a cue afficienado (sp?) and he really knows his sh*t. he posts on here all the time and spends a lot of time in the "ask the cuemaker" section. so my friend plays with a bob runde schon and some people in there were giving him sh*t about paying over $1000 for a cue when he could get one a lot cheaper. they play with meucci and mcdermott and joss. my friend said that there is no comparison between a high-production cue and a hand-made custom cue.

the know-it-all stands up and says that he is full of it. he says that mass production is the key to high quality. he said this is how the car manufacturers like gm and ford make so many vehicles and keep their quality up. we argued with him that mass production may take a little away from quality but to no avail. you know how some people are; or maybe we were wrong.

I say get to know your cue and make any adaptations necessary to make the cue ball dance and the object balls pot...

It's what you get used to and are able to make perform...

Flex

P.S. Are all cues equal? Of course not... Make the cue ball dance.... If you don't know how to, learn...

 

[vivalaraza]

I say get to know your cue and make any adaptations necessary to make the cue ball dance and the object balls pot...

It's what you get used to and are able to make perform...

Flex

P.S. Are all cues equal? Of course not... Make the cue ball dance.... If you don't know how to, learn...

i'm not a beginner player. i know how to use the cue. i was wondering about how much different the cues could actually be. i know there are differernt variations from cue to cue and i know that a dufferin ain't gonna hit as good as a kersenbrock.

however, i did make an adjustment to my cue. after i got it i got my friend TommyD (on this board) to install an ivory ferrule and softer tip; i had a moori hard. i like it much better!

do you know if points and ivory have anything to do with the hit of a cue?

 

[Snapshot9]

My .02 cents

As I see it, the hardness of materials used in a cue
play a part in how it hits, but for example, the butt
is a composite piece made to hit like it is one solid
piece, and most of the butt usually is hardwoods used.
I doubt that you could find much difference in the
better quality ferrules used, whether natural or man
made materials. The tip used will make a difference.
As humans, we will sense a slight difference, and probably
think that with a soft tip the hit stroke is staying on the
cue a micro second longer than with a hard tip. I don't
think there is much difference between phenolic or SS joints,
but you can sense a slight difference with wood-to-wood
joints. Most of the differences are 'felt' from by the way
the shaft is made, and its taper. Joss's today feel different
to me today, than the custom ones made 30 years ago.
I am sure if you took that 13.25 mm shaft and turned it down
to 12.75 mm with a pro taper, that there would be a noticeable
'feel' difference to you.