Determining the angle...

[GStrong]

Is there a quick and easy way to determine the cut angle on any shot?

I have a pretty good system for determining most cut angles... Obviously on rail shots, the side pocket to the corner is 45, half of that, etc... Where I have some problems... is when both balls are in the middle area... and it's about 30-50 degree cut... So, I am just wondering if there is a quick and easy formula/way to determine an approximate number...

Thanks

 

[time_is_now]

Is there a quick and easy way to determine the cut angle on any shot?

I have a pretty good system for determining most cut angles... Obviously on rail shots, the side pocket to the corner is 45, half of that, etc... Where I have some problems... is when both balls are in the middle area... and it's about 30-50 degree cut... So, I am just wondering if there is a quick and easy formula/way to determine an approximate number...

Thanks

don't really understand why you want to know the angle in terms of %....when cutting a ball it is all about hitting the spot on the ball...contact spot on the ball with the contact spot on the cue ball to make the shot...assuming you don't throw/spin the ball out of the pocket...or let it slide or skid on you

 

[recoveryjones]

don't really understand why you want to know the angle in terms of %....when cutting a ball it is all about hitting the spot on the ball...contact spot on the ball with the contact spot on the cue ball to make the shot...assuming you don't throw/spin the ball out of the pocket...or let it slide or skid on you

Knowing what zone(example 15,30, 45 degrees etc.) the cut angle falls in is important when applying the many aiming systems that are out there. Once you know the zone you can(for example) apply 1/4,1/2 or 3/4 ball hits etc.

For example a 30,31,32,33,34 degree hit etc, is the same 1/2 ball cut.A 44 degree cut may go in with a half ball hit, whereas a 46 degree cut may require a 1/4 ball hit.There are not 90 different cut shots for the 90 differing degrees of possible cue ball object ball situations.Because the pocket is usually twice as big as the object ball, 6 different cuts will basically make all shots in pool.Finding which of these six zones your cut lies in becomes very important.
RJ

 

[ptrickshot]

Recovery hit the nail on the head

That is one of the best ways to describe cutting balls , the biggest mistake people make when cutting is not understanding which part of the cue ball is actually making contact with the object ball. Some unfortunate souls are aiming center cue ball to contact point on object ball and are in for a long miserable lifetime of billiards. Variation of aiming techniques are nice but nothing takes the place of repetition and memory of your angles.

 

[GStrong]

Thanks for the input so far, but let me put this another way... Has anyone CJ Wiley's aiming system? That is pretty much what I use... When I have a full table length cut and it is approximately, let's say, 30 degrees... it makes a big difference whether it is 25 or 35... we're talking full table or long 7,8 ft cuts here. For me, if it is 25, I will put a half ball hit... if it is 35, I will need to put, cue tip to the outside edge, 45 - 1/4 ball hit, etc... and trust me, I Play pretty fast and don't miss most shots... However, there are still some long tough shots that I would like to find a quick easy formula to determine the angle... and pick my shot.

I have tried contact point and it doesn't work for me. Thanks.

 

[icem3n]

That is one of the best ways to describe cutting balls , the biggest mistake people make when cutting is not understanding which part of the cue ball is actually making contact with the object ball. Some unfortunate souls are aiming center cue ball to contact point on object ball and are in for a long miserable lifetime of billiards. Variation of aiming techniques are nice but nothing takes the place of repetition and memory of your angles.

Well said.... also one quarter ball cut shot or more will cause object ball to throw off. So it is best to drill this shot and embed them in your memory chip..

 

[Jal]

Thanks for the input so far, but let me put this another way... Has anyone CJ Wiley's aiming system? That is pretty much what I use... When I have a full table length cut and it is approximately, let's say, 30 degrees... it makes a big difference whether it is 25 or 35... we're talking full table or long 7,8 ft cuts here. For me, if it is 25, I will put a half ball hit... if it is 35, I will need to put, cue tip to the outside edge, 45 - 1/4 ball hit, etc... and trust me, I Play pretty fast and don't miss most shots... However, there are still some long tough shots that I would like to find a quick easy formula to determine the angle... and pick my shot.

I have tried contact point and it doesn't work for me. Thanks.

I don't think there is any easy way to determine what you're looking for, but then I don't think I know what you're really looking for.

If you mean that given that the object ball is at point A, the cueball at point B, and the center of the pocket at point C, then what is the cut angle? I'm pretty sure there's no simple way to determine it, at least not simple enough that you could quickly do it in your head. That would be the holy grail, wouldn't it?

If you mean that given that you need to hit the object ball at some fraction of its diameter, then what is the cut angle, there is a simple formula but you'd have to have a table of sines memorized. And of course, since you already know where to hit the object ball, knowing the cut angle seems a wee bit superfluous.

Jim

 

[recoveryjones]

Thanks for the input so far, but let me put this another way... Has anyone CJ Wiley's aiming system? That is pretty much what I use... When I have a full table length cut and it is approximately, let's say, 30 degrees... it makes a big difference whether it is 25 or 35... we're talking full table or long 7,8 ft cuts here. For me, if it is 25, I will put a half ball hit... if it is 35, I will need to put, cue tip to the outside edge, 45 - 1/4 ball hit, etc... and trust me, I Play pretty fast and don't miss most shots... However, there are still some long tough shots that I would like to find a quick easy formula to determine the angle... and pick my shot.

I have tried contact point and it doesn't work for me. Thanks.

I find systems like CJ Wiley's and Hal Houle's completely reliable for closer up to mid range cut shots. On longer cuts they seem to be less reliable.Having said that, longer cut shots are harder than close up ones, system or no system.
RJ

 

[mnShooter]

These systems (Hal's and CJ Wiley's) are all based on the balls quarters. You have to make slight adjustments to accurately pocket balls. How you do it is up to you. Actually CJ tells you how to make the adjustments. But for Hal's you can use english or just aim a little fuller or thinner. A lot of people will miss a ball by more than a quarter of a ball, especially on long shots. So these will get you close but you have to make the adjustment, whether it is conscious or unconscious. If you do it enough you will be able to do it in your sleep.

Todd Leveck has a neat way to calculate an angle pretty quickly. It might take a while to get his book though. Took six months from the day I ordered it.

 

[Ronoh]

The "cut" angle is easy to figure out by imagining the "ghost" cue ball of the contact point.

The hard part to understand is when the cue ball is making contact with the object ball.

A few questions you need to ask yourself:

Does the cue ball have any natural "top" forward roll at the time of contact?
Does the cue ball have any "stun" at the time of contact?
Does the cue ball have any "reverse" at the time of contact?

Usually, when you're playing on a decent table, and you have to slow roll your cut shot to gain shape for the next shot... Your cue ball will have "running" english, which will transfer to the ball being cut, which will result with either a "low left" or a "low right" throw of the object ball. (depends on which side the attack angle is coming from)

Usually, when you see ball bangers hitting hard, they are only going for the shot because "throw" doesn't have time to take effect (in that 26-43 degree cut) and more often than not, they will be out of shape due to the hard hit.

Now, a lot of this depends on how dirty the balls are. I've said in the past and I'll say it again. Understandinging friction of table surface, ball surface, and tip surface is key to making any shot. All three of those factors come after your approach, stance, and stroke.

If you doubt what I'm saying, put a camera on the shot. You'll see.

edit: yes, I put the extra "ing" so that you reread that part, It's important.