DFW Billiards - Warning!

[TheCutShot]

This is a WARNING for anyone in the DFW area that has a Pool Table that needs any type of work done to it, DO NOT USE DFW BILLIARDS FOR THE WORK! they will Butcher your Table!!!!!!!!! I know this is a long Post, but if you or anyone you know has a table that needs work it is worth the time to take notice of this!!!!!

Back the last of August I had DFW Billiards to do some work on my table, (I have an OLIO 8 ft. table which is basically a chinese version of the Gold Crown! and you know the Chinese they copy everything exactly! So if it doesn't go on a Gold Crown then why would you put it on my table?) I had a couple of rails where the rubber had gone bad and needed it fixed, and that was really the only thing wrong with the table except that it needed leveling. The cloth even though it had been on the table about 10 years was still in decent shape and was fast! Well to do the new rubber required removing the rail cloth and replacing the rubber and recovering, since neither Championship Tour Edition or Simonis had my Original cloth color we decided to go ahead and recover the table while we were at it. I Paid DFW Billiards $750 for the work - This is what happened, First I had broken down the table and had the rails ready for them to do their work on them, they arrived and picked up the rails to take back to their shop where they proceeded to put the rail cores on a table saw and cut off the old rubber, instead of just peeling it off and then sanding down the old glue! This removed some wood from the rail core which you will see in the photos leaves an unsightly mess at the bottom of the rail. As you may or may not know Gold Crowns use the K55 profile rubber, DFW Billiards installed the K66 profile. Second - I had 4 1/2 in. pockets (as they had double facings) when the rails left my house, they came back being 5 in. pockets, and speaking of the Pocket Facings, because they had trimmed wood off of the rail core they then tried to cut the facings to match their butcher job and totally butchered the Facings as you will see in the photos. Third - when it came to recovering the table they started from the side pockets without first putting a stretch lengthwise down the middle, this caused the weave of the fabric to be all over the place, in and out - see photo - and when a ball slow rolled over those areas the ball would follow the weave of the fabric and not roll true. I originally had Championship Tour Edition Sahara Color and we had to replace it with Tour Edition Camel Color, and for some reason Tour Edition is now really Slow!! Fourth - he didn't get the rails and corner castings reassembled correctly, there was this one that was really out of whack!!

The only thing DFW Billiards did get right was getting the Slate and Table Level again!!!! Which is why I only asked for Half of my Money Back!!

I have talked to the owner of DFW Billiards and told him how disgusted I was with their work and that I was going to have to hire another Table Mechanic to come and fix their F__k Up and that I expected to receive half of my Money back to help Pay for fixing the problems they created. I not only talked to him on the phone but also sent him an email - this was his reply -

Rick Barber <service@dfwbilliardpros.com>
To:Sam Loveless


Tue, Oct 6 at 4:23 PM


I agreed to refund the money to you. I will drop that off next week after I am allowed to leave the house by the doctor.

Best of luck Sam.

As of this date I have not heard from him again nor received the Money!!!
I have already had the table repaired, I hired Marc Orman of Dallas Billiard Pros to come and fix the table! and they did a great job on it!!
Table now has Brunswick K55 Superspeed Rubber, 4 1/2 in. Pockets again, and is covered with Simonis 860 Camel color.
Unfortunately there's not much that can be done about the Rail Cores where the wood was cut off except to do the Pocket Facings correctly and try and let the cloth hide the F--k Up, short of new Rail Cores, which may be an option for the next time.

 

[jtompilot]

Sorry about the hack job, If you paid by credit card I’d dispute the charges and get all your money back.

When the time comes, Jeremy Chambers can make you a new top.

 

[rexus31]

You should post this in the Mechanic's Section to get some candid feedback. If your pockets were made smaller by stacking facings, this is the incorrect way to tighten the pockets. Why didn't you have them extend the subrails and do it properly? Did you specify what rubber you wanted installed? I believe the Simonis DVD's show the proper method for installing cloth is to start from the side. That's how my mechanic did it on my GC and he's the best in CA. Does your table still retain the 100" x 50" playing surface? What's the rail height?

 

[sonny burnett]

Why did you go with DFW to begin with? Did you have the option of using the mechanic you hired to fix the hack?

I'm not giving you grief as you have enough of that! I'm just curious. Bad enough the game has the death rattles but throw in hacks like this in the mix with dubious cue makers it does not look good, even without the pandemic.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

 

[ChrisinNC]

You should post this in the Mechanic's Section to get some candid feedback. If your pockets were made smaller by stacking facings, this is the incorrect way to tighten the pockets. Why didn't you have them extend the subrails and do it properly? Did you specify what rubber you wanted installed? I believe the Simonis DVD's show the proper method for installing cloth is to start from the side. That's how my mechanic did it on my GC and he's the best in CA. Does your table still retain the 100" x 50" playing surface? What's the rail height?

It certainly helps to have enough knowledge regarding your pool table to not assume they know what profile cushions to replace with - K55 or K66? Virtually everyone on here knows gold crowns and diamonds take k55, but almost everything else takes k66 profiles. Also, any time they would be replacing Cushions, you would want to stipulate exactly what size pocket mouths you want when they are finished, sides and corners. You can’t just assume they know to make it exactly as it was when you gave it to them, particularly if they were replacing the cushion rubbers.

Also, reading your post, I assume you got all 6 cushions replaced, not just the two that were dead, which is highly not recommended.

My initial impression reading your text is that the price quote seemed awfully low for an experienced reputable mechanic for replacing and installing new super speed cushion rubbers, recovering bed and rails (Simonis?), and of course re-leveling. Most reputable mechanics would have charged a minimum of $900 - $1000 for that job.

 

[9ball5032]

Sorry you got such terrible service. Glad you got it all straightened out.

 

[maha]

my requirements nowadays for any kind of work done that i am not there supervising, is to have the person write up exactly what and how they are going to do it. and certainly explain it in detail in person so we are on the same page.
and as said, unless you know the person very well pay by credit card. then you hold the options. but i pay after the job is finished to my satisfaction, so if you paid after the job it was kind up to you to check what they did was satisfactory.
anytime a service person demands money in advance it says we dont trust you, or we have had too many people complain about our work and not pay.

 

[TheCutShot]

It certainly helps to have enough knowledge regarding your pool table to not assume they know what profile cushions to replace with - K55 or K66? Virtually everyone on here knows gold crowns and diamonds take k55, but almost everything else takes k66 profiles. Also, any time they would be replacing Cushions, you would want to stipulate exactly what size pocket mouths you want when they are finished, sides and corners. You can’t just assume they know to make it exactly as it was when you gave it to them, particularly if they were replacing the cushion rubbers.

Also, reading your post, I assume you got all 6 cushions replaced, not just the two that were dead, which is highly not recommended.

My initial impression reading your text is that the price quote seemed awfully low for an experienced reputable mechanic for replacing and installing new super speed cushion rubbers, recovering bed and rails (Simonis?), and of course re-leveling. Most reputable mechanics would have charged a minimum of $900 - $1000 for that job.

Yes I did specify upfront what size the Pockets were to be and what Brand and Profile of Rubber to use!!! The Cloth we used at first was Championship Tour Edition as that was what I had done originally when I bought the table. Once I saw how bad their work was and that it was going to have to be redone I decided to go with Simonis. And Yes all 6 cushions were replaced!! The Pocket size was the first thing I noticed that was wrong because I had specifically told them 4 1/2 in.!!! Prices vary from Mechanic to Mechanic and Location, the Mechanic that came to fix DFW Billiards screw up charged $ 500, it just depends on the size of their operation.

 

[rexus31]

Yes I did specify upfront what size the Pockets were to be and what Brand and Profile of Rubber to use!!! The Cloth we used at first was Championship Tour Edition as that was what I had done originally when I bought the table. Once I saw how bad their work was and that it was going to have to be redone I decided to go with Simonis. And Yes all 6 cushions were replaced!! The Pocket size was the first thing I noticed that was wrong because I had specifically told them 4 1/2 in.!!! Prices vary from Mechanic to Mechanic and Location, the Mechanic that came to fix DFW Billiards screw up charged $ 500, it just depends on the size of their operation.

How did the new mechanic tighten the pockets? Doing it properly (extending the subrail) is usually a minimum $1K job.

 

[VonRhett]

Please tell us that the 2nd repair did not use shims to get back to 4.5" pockets??

If you have 5" and want 4.5", the only correct way is to replace/extend the sub-rails.

Oops, just realized the post above me is asking the same.

FWIW, it's really not fair to blast a small biz like this. You have a LOT of responsibility for this mess.

You bought a chinese knock-off because it's cheaper. Contrary to your claim, they do NOT "copy everything exactly". Far from it.

So you bought the cheapest table on the planet then after 10-years of play you looked for the cheapest mechanic.

Then, you break down the table for them?? Why?? To save a dollar or to hide something??

<That's like cutting your hair before you go the barber, then blaming him for ugly hair.>

You got what you paid for, with a chinese knock off table.

You are assuming they could remove the cushions as you do on a Gold Crown. But you don't have a GC.
You pretend to have a GC, but you don't. Has it occurred to you that they HAD to cut off the cushions??

All in all, you are placing all blame on DFW, when they have less fault than you do.

The real warning here, in my honest opinion, is not to do business with you.

 

[rexus31]

Please tell us that the 2nd repair did not use shims to get back to 4.5" pockets??

If you have 5" and want 4.5", the only correct way is to replace/extend the sub-rails.

Oops, just realized the post above me is asking the same.

FWIW, it's really not fair to blast a small biz like this. You have a LOT of responsibility for this mess.

You bought a chinese knock-off because it's cheaper. Contrary to your claim, they do NOT "copy everything exactly". Far from it.

So you bought the cheapest table on the planet then after 10-years of play you looked for the cheapest mechanic.

Then, you break down the table for them?? Why?? To save a dollar or to hide something??

<That's like cutting your hair before you go the barber, then blaming him for ugly hair.>

You got what you paid for, with a chinese knock off table.

You are assuming they could remove the cushions as you do on a Gold Crown. But you don't have a GC.
You pretend to have a GC, but you don't. Has it occurred to you that they HAD to cut off the cushions??

All in all, you are placing all blame on DFW, when they have less fault than you do.

The real warning here, in my honest opinion, is not to do business with you.

Nailed it!

 

[noMoreSchon]

my requirements nowadays for any kind of work done that i am not there supervising, is to have the person write up exactly what and how they are going to do it. and certainly explain it in detail in person so we are on the same page.
and as said, unless you know the person very well pay by credit card. then you hold the options. but i pay after the job is finished to my satisfaction, so if you paid after the job it was kind up to you to check what they did was satisfactory.
anytime a service person demands money in advance it says we dont trust you, or we have had too many people complain about our work and not pay.

Being hesitant about money goes both ways, people seem to be entitled to work performed on their property. Many times, without contract people are taken advantage of. Put it on paper. The expectation vs reality is always something that needs to be explained, and I know from the beginning of a job whether or not it is going to be a fruitful relationship.

 

[bradsh98]

If you want to have confidence in the work that someone performs, do your research. Check out the business's website and social media. Ask for references. Check out reviews.

anytime a service person demands money in advance it says we dont trust you, or we have had too many people complain about our work and not pay.

This isn't necessarily one-size-fits-all.

When I was first getting started in this business, I couldn't afford to have a customer back out, and be left with cloth that would then be sitting on a shelf in my shop. Now, I have enough business that unused materials don't stick around very long. However, that wasn't always the case. Not that long ago, I used to require 50% deposit for any pool table work. The reason was two-fold. First, I didn't always have the extra cash on hand to purchase materials. Second, to ensure that the customer and I had the same level of commitment. There have been a few times that I've been burned by customers backing out at the last moment. Some due to lower priced alternatives, some due to customer scheduling changes, some because the wife discovered the cost.

Most recently, I scheduled a Saturday morning barbox recover. I should have been weary, as the customer stated that my price was higher than another gentleman that he had requested the services of. However, the other gentleman did not show up on the agreed upon date. Despite the higher cost, the customer was aware of my reputation, appreciated my professionalism, and wanted the table done right away. I adjusted my schedule and expedited cloth delivery. I showed up at the location at the agreed upon time (9:00 am), and there was no answer at the door. I called the customer several times, clearly waking them. I was given some story about an emergency, and that they were not home. However, I was assured that they would be contacting me the next day to reschedule. 3 months later, I'm still waiting for that call.



The point is, let customer feedback inform you of a company's reputation, not your biased opinion of the ways in which the company conducts business. If you have concerns, ask; not just the company, but the references as well.

 

[maha]

most companies can return or use elsewhere the materials not used and still in new condition if they are a good customer of their supplier.
i can see when starting out you may have issues with money but it isnt the customers responsibility to protect you. a person doing recovering should have a place where they pickup their cloth and can return unused ones. thats business. if they wont allow that it means they are not a good supplier.
and generally someone that new or on such short money in many cases isnt the person you want to do a job where you pay in advance for anything. at least not me.

 

[rexus31]

most companies can return or use elsewhere the materials not used and still in new condition if they are a good customer of their supplier.
i can see when starting out you may have issues with money but it isnt the customers responsibility to protect you. a person doing recovering should have a place where they pickup their cloth and can return unused ones. thats business. if they wont allow that it means they are not a good supplier.
and generally someone that new or on such short money in many cases isnt the person you want to do a job where you pay in advance for anything. at least not me.

Asking for a deposit is not unique to pool table work. Lots of service type companies require a deposit to cover cost of materials and secure the job. It's a common sense best practice to do you homework on a company/individual before you hire them to do a job.

 

[maha]

if you do choose to give a deposit only do it with a credit card. so if they dont show or mess the job up you have recourse.
same with any purchase i order if the delivery is longer than my credit cards ability to block the transaction i dont do it unless i am confident everything will go smoothly..

 

[bradsh98]

most companies can return or use elsewhere the materials not used and still in new condition if they are a good customer of their supplier.
i can see when starting out you may have issues with money but it isnt the customers responsibility to protect you. a person doing recovering should have a place where they pickup their cloth and can return unused ones. thats business. if they wont allow that it means they are not a good supplier.
and generally someone that new or on such short money in many cases isnt the person you want to do a job where you pay in advance for anything. at least not me.

Most suppliers in the billiard industry will accept returns. However, at $25-30 shipping each way, it's not worth it.

Requiring deposits is not a sign of a shady business. In fact, it's smart business practice. As I stated earlier, it establishes a commitment from the customer. Often times, I am booked out 4 weeks. If a customer backs out, it can create scheduling issues. It may not mean much to you, but when you are someone who travels all over the state, it often helps if you can group jobs by location. And what about the example that I mentioned earlier: when you show up to a customer location, and they won't answer the door because they found someone cheaper.

If you don't like the practice of a business, don't use them, but don't insist that your biased opinion is the correct viewpoint. Sure, there are bad businesses out there.. But, there are also bad customers. If the businesses performing this work were large corporations, I might see it your way. However, most of the people doing this work are individuals, putting food on the table for their families.

That said, I will defer to my previous comment: do your research, before you hire someone.