Diamond Professional red oversize 8 foot - what cushions?

viper99ta

New member
I plan on replacing the cushions on my Diamond Professional red label oversized 8 foot table. It is an Oak table with a build date of March 1998. Currently it has Diamond black cushions but I don't know the age.

I've read to use them for 7 and 8 foot tables and Artemis for 9 foot Diamond tables.

Being an 8.5 foot I wasn't sure if I should go with the $400 Artemis or stick with the $150 Diamond Black cushions?

Plan to use 3/16 neoprene durometer 60 facings.

Is there anyway to know the pocket size without the cushions, cloth and facings on (measuring the opening now)? Hard to find info on these oversized 8 foot tables, short of all the posts on how they bank.

Attached are a couple of pics of the table after sanding before staining and top coat etc.

Thanks,

John
 

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Renegade_56

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have a red label 9 ft diamond professional and I replaced the cushions earlier this year. I went with the diamond black cushions largely due to price. My option was go black diamond or aftermarket brand about the same price. I didn't even consider the Artimus at more than twice the price of everything else I found. I also decided to use 3/16" neoprene pocket facings to get my pockets down to about 4 1/2 or less. The corners ended up closer to 4 3/8 which would be okay but the problem is the facings are very bouncy, it's very easy to rattle balls that don't fall, which was no where near as common before replacement. The black diamond cushions in my opinion are very lively, everything seems exaggerated to me, to the point I would say too lively. I'm not sure all the extra money for Artimus cushions is the best option, but I doubt you'll like the diamond blacks.
 

Renegade_56

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Championship tour edition k55.
These are what Glen recommended. I put them on a 9 foot red label and it plays great.
Ironically, this is what I bought for my table first, then decided for some reason it was inferior for a diamond professional table, so I spent more for another set, Black Diamond cushions, I suppose thinking at least it was a Diamond product and surely must be better because it cost more and well, it was a Diamond product. The thing is, I still have the set of Championship cushions, brand new, still in the shipping box they came in. My table doesn't get as much play as it used to, 98% of it's use nowadays is just me practicing alone, working with an aiming system. My brother and I used to play one pocket on it quite a bit, at least 5 or 6 hours a day and often multiple times per week. He died of cancer earlier this year so theres that. The table has new Simonis 860hr on it as well as the new diamond cushions. I like the cloth and it seems a shame to scrap new cloth just to practice aiming. I don't like the thick pocket facings or the Black Diamond cushions and if I still played one pocket much at all I would remove the facings and the new cushions, buy new cloth, (maybe something other than Simonis 860hr), install the Championship cushions I have, and go back to the original thin pocket facings. As it stands, I don't think it plays that well for one pocket but I don't really have a playing partner just now, so, I practice aiming, which is an everyday thing for me, but my passion to play is one pocket. Still trying to decide what to do with my table.
 

viper99ta

New member
Renegade 56, thank you for the detailed response. I'm very sorry you lost your brother, cancer sucks.

"go back to the original thin pocket facings."

Which ones, as in what thickness and durometer? Diamond now recommends the 3/16" neoprene so I'd like to know which ones you mean.

Sheldon, for the Championship tour edition k55, did you have to do any subrail modification? And do you mean these: https://www.classicbilliards.net/cu...rubber/guides-specs/k55-mounting-1-625in.html

I ask because they state for a 1-5/8" subrail, the diamonds are supposed to be 1-11/16". Very close I know.
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ironically, this is what I bought for my table first, then decided for some reason it was inferior for a diamond professional table, so I spent more for another set, Black Diamond cushions, I suppose thinking at least it was a Diamond product and surely must be better because it cost more and well, it was a Diamond product. The thing is, I still have the set of Championship cushions, brand new, still in the shipping box they came in. My table doesn't get as much play as it used to, 98% of it's use nowadays is just me practicing alone, working with an aiming system. My brother and I used to play one pocket on it quite a bit, at least 5 or 6 hours a day and often multiple times per week. He died of cancer earlier this year so theres that. The table has new Simonis 860hr on it as well as the new diamond cushions. I like the cloth and it seems a shame to scrap new cloth just to practice aiming. I don't like the thick pocket facings or the Black Diamond cushions and if I still played one pocket much at all I would remove the facings and the new cushions, buy new cloth, (maybe something other than Simonis 860hr), install the Championship cushions I have, and go back to the original thin pocket facings. As it stands, I don't think it plays that well for one pocket but I don't really have a playing partner just now, so, I practice aiming, which is an everyday thing for me, but my passion to play is one pocket. Still trying to decide what to do with my table.
Curious what it is you don't like about the Diamond Blacks.
 

Renegade_56

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Curious what it is you don't like about the Diamond Blacks.
They are, in my opinion, just too lively. Everything seems exaggerated, meaning small amounts of speed and/or spin are more pronounced. The standard 3 rail track back to the corner is off by almost a full diamond. It's a pretty big adjustment going from local commercial tables, mostly Diamond 9 ft Pro Ams, to my home table.
 

Renegade_56

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Renegade 56, thank you for the detailed response. I'm very sorry you lost your brother, cancer sucks.

"go back to the original thin pocket facings."

Which ones, as in what thickness and durometer? Diamond now recommends the 3/16" neoprene so I'd like to know which ones you mean.
I honestly couldn't say the durometer, they were 3/16" thick and were whatever Muellers had on hand when I bought the cushions. The table originally had like 4 3/4" corners and when I bought it the cushions had hard spots, really hard. I wanted the pockets about 4 1/2 so I wanted 1/8" pocket facings to replace the originals, which were very thin. They only had 3/16 on hand so that is what I got. The corners measure about 4 7/16" now but any shot with medium or more speed and not dead center pocket is subject to rattle and stay up. It doesn't seem like it's because of tighter pockets, but rather appears the ball is bouncing between pocket facings. Full disclosure, I never played on the table before I put the new cushions and cloth on it so I can't honestly say what the difference is since my work.
 

phreaticus

Well-known member
Curious what it is you don't like about the Diamond Blacks.
Hi Rexus, can you or anyone clarify what exactly Diamond Blacks are? I was under the impression they are same as Blues just a different label. Correct, or something else? Thx
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Diamond Black refers to the cushions Diamond uses on all tables other than 9' which gets Artemis. They are referred to Diamond Blacks because they are black in color and used on Diamond tables.
 

phreaticus

Well-known member
Diamond Black refers to the cushions Diamond uses on all tables other than 9' which gets Artemis. They are referred to Diamond Blacks because they are black in color and used on Diamond tables.
Ah, glad I asked!

Sorry to keep asking dumb questions.. So Diamond 9 ft ProAm with black labels have nothing to do with the above then & are just same as blue labels?

Thx
 
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Renegade_56

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As far as I know, all Diamond 9’ come with Artemis cushions.
No that is incorrect. At least some of the Diamond Professional red label tables came with "Championship Fleetwood" cushions. Mine did I know, and I have seen posts by trentfromtoledo stating that as well. They are K55 profile, but not available any longer.
 

phreaticus

Well-known member
No that is incorrect. At least some of the Diamond Professional red label tables came with "Championship Fleetwood" cushions. Mine did I know, and I have seen posts by trentfromtoledo stating that as well. They are K55 profile, but not available any longer.
Yeah, I think the Diamond red label rail history is super well known. Thats what blue labels fixed, right?

I was wondering what exactly is different on the Diamond 9 ft tables w/black labels? I think @rexus31 educated me/us that “Diamond Blacks” refers to a specific rail rubber from Diamond on 7 & 8 ft tables that was actually black in color, I guess a totally different issue.

I understood no design changes to any Diamond 9ft rails since blue labels. I have a mid 2000’s black label proAm & have seen several others - it plays same as Diamond blue labels in NorCal poolhalls, ie CA Billiards, HT in Sac, etc.

Again, sorry for noob table questions, I was out of the game for a looooooong time.

✌️
 
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muskyed

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I thought the black's, as used on the 7 and 8 ft diamond tables, are actually less lively than the cushions used on the 9' diamond tables ?
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No that is incorrect. At least some of the Diamond Professional red label tables came with "Championship Fleetwood" cushions. Mine did I know, and I have seen posts by trentfromtoledo stating that as well. They are K55 profile, but not available any longer.
For clarification, I was referring to the newer tables.
 
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