Different Stroking Methods???

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payton34

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I'm some what new to pool and have a question about stroking the stick. I've noticed at local pool hauls that there are people that refer to a term called playing "loose"...what exactly do they mean? Also, I've noticed players using a neat little stroking method. They basically aim at the cue ball then when moving the stick away they slightly raise it then come back down on the cue ball...like up and down sort of motion. It's hard to explain but I'm sure you guys know what I'm talking about and if so what is that? I play with a straight smooth stroke but these guys (really good players) use that up and down sort of cicular motion...what is that and should I practice it???

Thanks guys!:confused:
 
You must be watching them Filipinos. :)
Close your eyes when those guys are playing.
Or don't analyze them.
The pendulum stroke is still the easiest to learn.
The loose-goosey bicycle stroke is not recommended.
 
Yes...the bicycle stoke is what I'm talking about. What is that and why do people use it? Again, all the good players by me seem to shoot that way and I'm just thinking that's something you do when you become a better player?
 
no it's not something you do when you get better, it's actually 'wrong'. (and let me reiterate those inverted commas i put around wrong)

you should learn and practice swinging that lower arm backwards and forwards smoothly and straightly - the 'bicycle' stroke is not textbook technique to say the least and you shouldnt try to copy it. however a lot of players have stuck with bad habits and have learned to play with them, and have honed their skills well and they play like that because they are used to it. Bustamante is a prime example. a wonderful player, one of the greats, and has stuck to his style and honed it. but copying him would be a big mistake. i havent a clue how he does it lol. his cueing arm rotates in a big circle, and he lines up low right english on every shot it looks like!
 
payton34 said:
I'm some what new to pool and have a question about stroking the stick. I've noticed at local pool hauls that there are people that refer to a term called playing "loose"...what exactly do they mean? Also, I've noticed players using a neat little stroking method. They basically aim at the cue ball then when moving the stick away they slightly raise it then come back down on the cue ball...like up and down sort of motion. It's hard to explain but I'm sure you guys know what I'm talking about and if so what is that? I play with a straight smooth stroke but these guys (really good players) use that up and down sort of cicular motion...what is that and should I practice it???

Thanks guys!:confused:
Click to expand...
OK, 1st question is what is playing loose. Playing loose is when you are "free stroking" or in the the "zone", kind of hitting the balls in without care or fear of missing.
There are other stroking methods. Bert Kinister in his Deflection Tape (vol. 19) explains a method where you aim through the center of the cueball like you were going to make the object ball with center. Stop on your last warmup stroke. Pull the cue back and follow through with the desired english. He says to use this method when putting massive amounts of english on the cueball. I have tried this method, but I do not make a habit of using it all the time.
I have seen Bustamante interviewed, and he uses this method. He also said he always aims low right because he can see the cueball and the shot better.
There are 2 other explanations to your question. Either these guys know you are watching, and are trying to suck you in to gamble(trying to look foolish), or maybe they are not as good as you may think. Depends on what your definition of good is. Not trying to offend you or these people you are watching.
I agree that you should stick with the basic pendulum (straight) stroke, but that does not make it right or wrong. Whatever works best for you in the end is going to be right. That is just my 2 cents.
 
Fosbury Flop

Have you tried playing that way? If it's comfortable and enhances your game give it a shot. I've seen a couple of young men in my area become Pro caliber using this technique. It's a proven stroke that works. Don't be afraid to 'think outside of the box' or experiment. Where would this world be if we did things by one set of rules.

payton34 said:
I'm some what new to pool and have a question about stroking the stick. I've noticed at local pool hauls that there are people that refer to a term called playing "loose"...what exactly do they mean? Also, I've noticed players using a neat little stroking method. They basically aim at the cue ball then when moving the stick away they slightly raise it then come back down on the cue ball...like up and down sort of motion. It's hard to explain but I'm sure you guys know what I'm talking about and if so what is that? I play with a straight smooth stroke but these guys (really good players) use that up and down sort of cicular motion...what is that and should I practice it???

Thanks guys!:confused:
Click to expand...
 
I would strongly advise that you, as a person trying to learn and improve, stick to the pendulum stroke in which you move your stick straight back and forward with a stationary elbow. I am not saying that this is the only way to stroke the ball, and I am certainly not trying to argue with the results that players like Efren have achieved. What I am saying however, is that you can achieve all the action you want with the pendulum stroke and that it is the one that you can learn and use most reliably.

Strokes like the "bicycle stroke" require absolutely perfect timing, otherworldly eye hand coordination, and countless hours of practice. They are much more difficult to reliably develop and maintain. For the vast majority of cases, a straight stroke with no extraneous moving parts will allow for the most rapid and solid development.
 
I passed up playing in a tournament today to go to the Florida State Championship that was being held in Spring Hill. A bunch of good players were on hand - Deuel, Strickland, Morris, Hatch - and I saw a lot of different strokes. Quite a few players use the bicycle hitch. I'll feel less guilty next time I feel myself do it. Even more common are players who drop their elbows on their follow through. I've read posts in the past saying this is a definite no-no. No one who shared their view was playing today.
 
payton34 said:
I'm some what new to pool and have a question about stroking the stick. I've noticed at local pool hauls that there are people that refer to a term called playing "loose"...what exactly do they mean? Also, I've noticed players using a neat little stroking method. They basically aim at the cue ball then when moving the stick away they slightly raise it then come back down on the cue ball...like up and down sort of motion. It's hard to explain but I'm sure you guys know what I'm talking about and if so what is that? I play with a straight smooth stroke but these guys (really good players) use that up and down sort of cicular motion...what is that and should I practice it???

Thanks guys!:confused:
Click to expand...

Your killing me mate. It's a cue, not a stick.:)

Focus on drawing the cue straight back and straight forward. The motions or inflections and movements you see in the strokes of better players have probably been developed over time. It is their natural stroke. If you attempt to copy it you will probably do it wrong and it will hurt your game.

I have a friend who tried to copy the "bicycle stroke" and he was wiggling the cue around all over the place and it made him EXTREMELY incosistent. The further you take the cue of the line of the shot the more work you have to do to get it back on line before it hits the cue ball. My friend was generally off line when he hit cue ball. To this day he still puts left hand side spin on all his shots (not intentional). It's best to try and keep the cue on the line of the shot for the entirety of your stroke.
 
payton34 said:
I'm some what new to pool and have a question about stroking the stick. I've noticed at local pool hauls that there are people that refer to a term called playing "loose"...what exactly do they mean? Also, I've noticed players using a neat little stroking method. They basically aim at the cue ball then when moving the stick away they slightly raise it then come back down on the cue ball...like up and down sort of motion. It's hard to explain but I'm sure you guys know what I'm talking about and if so what is that? I play with a straight smooth stroke but these guys (really good players) use that up and down sort of cicular motion...what is that and should I practice it???

Thanks guys!:confused:
Click to expand...

You mean the tip comes up when they stroke through the shot, rather than down...this is good in my opinion. Try it and see for yourself, that's the only way to know for sure...
 
acedotcom said:
I passed up playing in a tournament today to go to the Florida State Championship that was being held in Spring Hill. A bunch of good players were on hand - Deuel, Strickland, Morris, Hatch - and I saw a lot of different strokes. Quite a few players use the bicycle hitch. I'll feel less guilty next time I feel myself do it. Even more common are players who drop their elbows on their follow through. I've read posts in the past saying this is a definite no-no. No one who shared their view was playing today.
Click to expand...

"You have to walk before you can run" would be my guess as to why people suggest not to do this. Popular opinion doesn't mean it's the best option, either. Experiment.
 
Thanks for all the replies. It looks to me like Strickland and possibly Archer use the "biycicle" stroke??? I talked to one guy, which is a freind and a GREAT player and he said it's all what you feel. He uses this stroke and is VERY successful with it. I can honestly do both but again I don't want to go with that stroke if it's just flat out incorrect or not a good thing to use. I've only been playing serious for about a year now and don't want to pick up bad habbits that will cripple me in years to come.

Please reply / advise.
 
payton34 said:
I'm some what new to pool and have a question about stroking the stick. I've noticed at local pool hauls that there are people that refer to a term called playing "loose"...what exactly do they mean? Also, I've noticed players using a neat little stroking method. They basically aim at the cue ball then when moving the stick away they slightly raise it then come back down on the cue ball...like up and down sort of motion. It's hard to explain but I'm sure you guys know what I'm talking about and if so what is that? I play with a straight smooth stroke but these guys (really good players) use that up and down sort of cicular motion...what is that and should I practice it???

Thanks guys!:confused:
Click to expand...

I would suggest making sure your alignment is straight....Proper Grip, Stance, Posture, and most important...Is your cue in a "straight line" at address, and "in line with your personal line of sight"

As far as the stoke itself...just do whatever feels "natural" (within reason)

As long as your Grip,Stance,Posture,Alignment,& Bridge Hand are all solid at final address...I think you actually have put some effort in to not hit where you are intending.....Getting the set up and alignment correct (I think) is much harder than the actual "stroke".....JMO
 
Thanks again for your input. See cordination is not an issue and honestly I've been giving both strokes a try and the bicycle stroke feels more, I guess effortless to me. It seems when I hit the cue down table (just the cue...not aiming at any balls) it comes back to my cue tip almost dead on. Also, I feel I can get more english when using the bicycle stroke vs. the straight. My main worries (sounds like there shouldn't be any) are that stroke is something that you shouldn't do...or practice.

Can anyone clarify if Strickland & Archer use that bicycle stoke?

Thanks everyone.
 
payton34 said:
Thanks again for your input. See cordination is not an issue and honestly I've been giving both strokes a try and the bicycle stroke feels more, I guess effortless to me. It seems when I hit the cue down table (just the cue...not aiming at any balls) it comes back to my cue tip almost dead on. Also, I feel I can get more english when using the bicycle stroke vs. the straight. My main worries (sounds like there shouldn't be any) are that stroke is something that you shouldn't do...or practice.

Can anyone clarify if Strickland & Archer use that bicycle stoke?

Thanks everyone.
Click to expand...


When you watch players like Busta, Strickland, Frost, etc...pay close attention to the actual stroke when the tip impacts the CB...that is the only stroke that really counts.
 
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