Discolouration of Cocobola

via

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi guys have just sanded off the top layer of my Butts Finish in preperation for a REFINISH job.
The cue is a plain jane Cocobola with some ring works.
Anyway i have encountered that as i have been sanding off the finish the Cocobola seems to have become discolored. What was once a rich brown is now becoming slightly lighter tone of brown. And to make matters worse the discoloration is not uniform, certain areas are still dark while
some areas have become lighter.
Have any of you guys experienced this before? If so do you have any suggestions on what i can do
to regain the darker coloring of the wood before i reapply my finishing coat?

Thanks in advance
 
via said:
Hi guys have just sanded off the top layer of my Butts Finish in preperation for a REFINISH job.
The cue is a plain jane Cocobola with some ring works.
Anyway i have encountered that as i have been sanding off the finish the Cocobola seems to have become discolored. What was once a rich brown is now becoming slightly lighter tone of brown. And to make matters worse the discoloration is not uniform, certain areas are still dark while
some areas have become lighter.
Have any of you guys experienced this before? If so do you have any suggestions on what i can do
to regain the darker coloring of the wood before i reapply my finishing coat?

Thanks in advance



Wet one of your fingers, then wipe it on one of the lighter patches, and see if the lighter color turns back closer to the darker. If so, possible you still have sealer or finish in some of the wood pores, while in other areas you have made it all the way through. Coco can change to a darker color when finished, so I'm guessing that's what you are seeing, but please don't quote me on it, because without seeing it i could not be for sure. :) .
 
Oxidation

via said:
Hi guys have just sanded off the top layer of my Butts Finish in preperation for a REFINISH job.
The cue is a plain jane Cocobola with some ring works.
Anyway i have encountered that as i have been sanding off the finish the Cocobola seems to have become discolored. What was once a rich brown is now becoming slightly lighter tone of brown. And to make matters worse the discoloration is not uniform, certain areas are still dark while
some areas have become lighter.
Have any of you guys experienced this before? If so do you have any suggestions on what i can do
to regain the darker coloring of the wood before i reapply my finishing coat?

Thanks in advance

It sounds like you have not completely removed all of the finish/sealer in all areas. Cocobola also oxidizes when left exposed. If you sand the wood it will become lighter and with time it will darken.

Brian
 
via said:
Hi guys have just sanded off the top layer of my Butts Finish in preperation for a REFINISH job.
The cue is a plain jane Cocobola with some ring works.
Anyway i have encountered that as i have been sanding off the finish the Cocobola seems to have become discolored. What was once a rich brown is now becoming slightly lighter tone of brown. And to make matters worse the discoloration is not uniform, certain areas are still dark while
some areas have become lighter.
Have any of you guys experienced this before? If so do you have any suggestions on what i can do
to regain the darker coloring of the wood before i reapply my finishing coat?
Thanks in advance
First question that comes to my mind is, how are you sanding it? Rotating it on a lathe or ? You can also use an alcohol pad to check for residue from the old finish. When you wipe the wood with the pad (before the alcohol evaporates naturally), you'll see pretty much what the color of the grain will look like when the new finish is applied. I assume you're using spray equipment and a proper breathing device....Right?????

Cocobola can be a litle tricky to finish because of the oils in the wood. But after you've done it a few hundred times it gets easier. Notice I said "easier" not "easy"!! If you're spraying it, put on a light wet coat first, let it cure, then follow up with whatever number of coats you need for a good finish.
 
Other questions that come to mind are
Did you make the cue or just refinishing?
If you made it, think about how you sealed it? Very Important!
Did you use more finish in certain areas because of holes.
Sometimes you have to think about the beginning to connect the puzzle at the end.
 
Smorgass Bored said:
If all else fails, spray paint it Gold with an aerosol can..... (a little trick I learned in the Antiques & Collectibles trade... lol)
Doug
(this 'cue stuff' is easy)

Yea, that would work if you wanted a GOLD cocobola cue !!!!!!!!!:eek:
 
Cocobolo is a photoreactive wood, like cherry....when you first start to turn cocobolo it's a black/grey color then as sunlight does it thing it turns to the color that you see on finished cues....just don't snort the dust....;)
________
 
Last edited:
Other things about cocobola. When I want the cocobola to be a lighter color I apply finish quickly after sanding, while its still a lighter color. If I want it to be darker I will let it set a couple days before applying finish, this seams to let the oils in the wood naturally darken it.
If the cue had a base coat of West System, which has a UV inhibitor in it that gives everything a yellow tint, this may be the reason for the color differrances. If this is the case you will have to be shure and remove all of the old finish, or reapply a new base coat of West System.
Chris
 
thanks for the replies, i actually got my friend to post the question for me as my account was still awaiting approval.
 
Cocobolo Color

showboat said:
Cocobolo is a photoreacive wood, like cherry....when you first start to turn cocobolo it's a black/grey color then as sunlight does it thing it turns to the color that you see on finished cues....just don't snort the dust....;)

My experience with Cocobolo is a lot different than you have indicated. I have never seen any black/gray cocobolo wood.

When first obtained the color is from an orangish color to dark borwn and that depends on the individual log it was cut from and the length of time that has elapsed since it was cut. Most of the time it is a Redish Brown color with some black streaks.

When the Cocobolo wood is first machined the color is usually much lighter in color than it will be after exposure to ultraviolet rays. It seems to take about 6 months for it to turn into a really nice red/brown color after which it continues to get darker brown.

When working with cocobolo it is imperative that you glue it or finish it as quickly as possible after cutting. The cutting process seems to move the oils into the wood and if you start the glue/finish process immediately you achieve better adhesion than if you wait and the oils work their way back to the surface.
 
ok from what i have read in ur replies i had thought of proceeding as follows

1. Remove current finish, making sure there is no residue left
2. Leave the bare wood in sunlight for about a couple of days
3. Hopefully the colour will change either becos of the sunlight or the removal of access residue
4. wipe with spirits to remove access oil
5. immediately apply first coat of what ever finish i will be using.
6. continue as per usual with finishing.

But after reading the last post by ARNOT WADSWORTH... it seems like this colouration process by sunlight will take about 6 months... ... so am having thoughts abt waiting that long.
 
So far, where I'm at now, I have probably used coco as much as any other. Things I can say are that after cutting It is even a lighter orange color, or of the darker variety depending on the piece. It's kind of like purpleheart in that as It hangs over time it can darken up after cutting.
I have not tried hanging it in the sun personally, so I don't know what reaction it has, but I know that purpleheart will actually lighten up under the light and turn back to the pretty color It has after cutting. The light in My shop is enough to cause that reaction if I hang the pieces under It. It does'nt seem so far fetched that coco may have the oposite reaction due to the oils in it, and darken, but i have not tried it in the sun yet. It does however darken under the light in the shop, as where the PH does the opposite, so it very well may.

The oils in the wood can be a pain to finish that is true, I have'nt tried finishing right after a cut, but must say it does grab My interest, because I have fought with sealing the stuff off before, so I could apply finish over it. I tried using a urethane straight over it one time, and it took forever to dry.

Greg C
 
if thats the case may i ask what did u use to seal it?
Currently i have actually not been sealing it at all. And mostly
just wiping with damp spirit to remove oils and than immediately
applying the water bourne polyurethane -- coat after coat ---
 
Arnot Wadsworth said:
My experience with Cocobolo is a lot different than you have indicated. I have never seen any black/gray cocobolo wood.

When first obtained the color is from an orangish color to dark borwn and that depends on the individual log it was cut from and the length of time that has elapsed since it was cut. Most of the time it is a Redish Brown color with some black streaks.

When the Cocobolo wood is first machined the color is usually much lighter in color than it will be after exposure to ultraviolet rays. It seems to take about 6 months for it to turn into a really nice red/brown color after which it continues to get darker brown.

When working with cocobolo it is imperative that you glue it or finish it as quickly as possible after cutting. The cutting process seems to move the oils into the wood and if you start the glue/finish process immediately you achieve better adhesion than if you wait and the oils work their way back to the surface.

The chunk of cocobolo I tuned was grey with black streaks....the grey areas turned the familiar orange color that is associated with cocobolo...at least that's what I get with it...and it took about two weeks to change....
________
 
Last edited:
Robvandam said:
if thats the case may i ask what did u use to seal it?
Currently i have actually not been sealing it at all. And mostly
just wiping with damp spirit to remove oils and than immediately
applying the water bourne polyurethane -- coat after coat ---

That's the million dollar question, that I still need answers to Myself. I asked once before and someone posted a search like this one http://www.google.com/search?q=2+part+wood+sealer+cocobolo&hl=en&lr=&start=10&sa=N I have tried a few things, but for one reason or another was not satisfied. The spar sealed it off well but turned It somewhat antique, and i did'nt think it was going to ever dry. I'm talking weeks not hours, so I definatly don't recomend it..

Cleaners I have used are thinner, acetone, denatered alcohol, and water depending on what surface I was cleaning. no water on bare wood obviously, but also have to be carefull with the others on some plastics or composites, or you can melt them. I would recomend whatever you use to always try it on something like scrap if it's possible, because different materials react in different ways to cleaners, and I imagine the same goes with finishes, so I'm hesitent in recomending any. With coco cleaning can be tricky also, if you have any white areas it is possible that wiping the coco over them can stain, just like when sanding. It's like Mike mentioned in the other thread, there are just so many little things that can go wrong or be a PITA, and It's really hard to lay them all out for someone, and not miss something somewhere, and they are just things that unfortuanately are usually learned the hardway. I'm still learning many of those Myself, and everytime I try something different it switches things up on Me again.


On the water bourne, altough I have used some decent ones refinishing cabinets in the past, and have heard of some that are suppose to be very durable, but the only water base I used on a cue was just a harware store water based poly that I tried on a cue one time that was'nt even coco, it was only a refinish on stained birdseye. It looked decent when done, but months later I could see some bubbling effect taking place in parts of the finish, and the only thing I can figure is the stain that was originally used must have been an oil based, because the other areas of the cue that were not stained, did not bubble, so the oils in the coco may make that worse depending on the actual product used, and that's if You don't have problems even before completing the finish. I would not think that going straight over coco with it would be a good thing, but posible with a good sealer you could. I really don't know for sure though.

On the cue I mentioned, I used a spar urethane, and like I mentioned it took a while to dry, but eventually did, and then I went over it with a deft Lacquer. Both were in spray bomb, because of My lack of a spray booth to spray auto clear. The result, well, the spar sealed everything off and stuck very well once it finally dried, and the deft was easier to sand and buff then water based or ca I have used. The finish was a decent one for spray bombs, but it had some antiqueing color to it from the spar, (not the deft as it's clear), that some might would not like, and it could have been a slight bit harder. It's more of an old school look to me. I'll include a couple of pics, one is of the front before wrap, and the other of the butt after wrap, which is where the spar did'nt want to dry on the coco. They're not very good pics and don't show very well, but should give the idea.
I must have been nuts to try this, but I wanted to shoot with the cue & a shelac sealer on this cue just was'nt getting it for me. It's not the same as a auto clear, but seemed to work well enough to seal the cue off good so I could use it until I'm setup to spray, altough I would'nt sell a cue with this finish. keep in mind this is'nt something i recomend, just something I did. I am going to start spraying auto finish, so what I still need is a good sealer. I have heard of a west epoxy as a sealer, but have heard rumors of yellowing or antiqueing with that as well. If someone knows of a type of west product that would be good as sealer, and stays clear I for one would forever be in their dept.:) I can just run down the street to buy west products here in town.

My opinion, for an easy to work with, durable, as well as good looking finsh, the best way to go is a good autofinish. You need something for a good grain filler possibly the correct sealer may help in the area, but a good sealer will be a must anyway, and that's one thing i still need to find. You need a good spray booth with ventlation, and the proper breathing setup to be safe. There are other ways, but i think that's the way I'm going. Good luck with it, hopfully someone with more experience in this area can recomend a good sealer.:)


Greg
 

Attachments

  • veneeredcuestoolshot3.JPG
    veneeredcuestoolshot3.JPG
    95.3 KB · Views: 119
  • brazilboard1.JPG
    brazilboard1.JPG
    47.6 KB · Views: 119
Cue Crazy said:
That's the million dollar question, that I still need answers to Myself. I asked once before and someone posted a search like this one http://www.google.com/search?q=2+part+wood+sealer+cocobolo&hl=en&lr=&start=10&sa=N I have tried a few things, but for one reason or another was not satisfied. The spar sealed it off well but turned It somewhat antique, and i did'nt think it was going to ever dry. I'm talking weeks not hours, so I definatly don't recomend it..

Cleaners I have used are thinner, acetone, denatered alcohol, and water depending on what surface I was cleaning. no water on bare wood obviously, but also have to be carefull with the others on some plastics or composites, or you can melt them. I would recomend whatever you use to always try it on something like scrap if it's possible, because different materials react in different ways to cleaners, and I imagine the same goes with finishes, so I'm hesitent in recomending any. With coco cleaning can be tricky also, if you have any white areas it is possible that wiping the coco over them can stain, just like when sanding. It's like Mike mentioned in the other thread, there are just so many little things that can go wrong or be a PITA, and It's really hard to lay them all out for someone, and not miss something somewhere, and they are just things that unfortuanately are usually learned the hardway. I'm still learning many of those Myself, and everytime I try something different it switches things up on Me again.


On the water bourne, altough I have used some decent ones refinishing cabinets in the past, and have heard of some that are suppose to be very durable, but the only water base I used on a cue was just a harware store water based poly that I tried on a cue one time that was'nt even coco, it was only a refinish on stained birdseye. It looked decent when done, but months later I could see some bubbling effect taking place in parts of the finish, and the only thing I can figure is the stain that was originally used must have been an oil based, because the other areas of the cue that were not stained, did not bubble, so the oils in the coco may make that worse depending on the actual product used, and that's if You don't have problems even before completing the finish. I would not think that going straight over coco with it would be a good thing, but posible with a good sealer you could. I really don't know for sure though.

On the cue I mentioned, I used a spar urethane, and like I mentioned it took a while to dry, but eventually did, and then I went over it with a deft Lacquer. Both were in spray bomb, because of My lack of a spray booth to spray auto clear. The result, well, the spar sealed everything off and stuck very well once it finally dried, and the deft was easier to sand and buff then water based or ca I have used. The finish was a decent one for spray bombs, but it had some antiqueing color to it from the spar, (not the deft as it's clear), that some might would not like, and it could have been a slight bit harder. It's more of an old school look to me. I'll include a couple of pics, one is of the front before wrap, and the other of the butt after wrap, which is where the spar did'nt want to dry on the coco. They're not very good pics and don't show very well, but should give the idea.
I must have been nuts to try this, but I wanted to shoot with the cue & a shelac sealer on this cue just was'nt getting it for me. It's not the same as a auto clear, but seemed to work well enough to seal the cue off good so I could use it until I'm setup to spray, altough I would'nt sell a cue with this finish. keep in mind this is'nt something i recomend, just something I did. I am going to start spraying auto finish, so what I still need is a good sealer. I have heard of a west epoxy as a sealer, but have heard rumors of yellowing or antiqueing with that as well. If someone knows of a type of west product that would be good as sealer, and stays clear I for one would forever be in their dept.:) I can just run down the street to buy west products here in town.

My opinion, for an easy to work with, durable, as well as good looking finsh, the best way to go is a good autofinish. You need something for a good grain filler possibly the correct sealer may help in the area, but a good sealer will be a must anyway, and that's one thing i still need to find. You need a good spray booth with ventlation, and the proper breathing setup to be safe. There are other ways, but i think that's the way I'm going. Good luck with it, hopfully someone with more experience in this area can recomend a good sealer.:)


Greg

thanks for the detailed reply !!

By the way whats a Spray Bomb ??

Also for the sealer coat how many coats would be recommended before
i start piling on the finish coat?

(I bet you already know this) but I also read in some other wood working websites that Polyurethane finishes will not adhere to certain types of shellac
 
Robvandam said:
thanks for the detailed reply !!

By the way whats a Spray Bomb ??

Also for the sealer coat how many coats would be recommended before
i start piling on the finish coat?

(I bet you already know this) but I also read in some other wood working websites that Polyurethane finishes will not adhere to certain types of shellac


http://www.prevalspraygun.com/
 
Robvandam said:
thanks for the detailed reply !!

By the way whats a Spray Bomb ??

Also for the sealer coat how many coats would be recommended before
i start piling on the finish coat?

(I bet you already know this) but I also read in some other wood working websites that Polyurethane finishes will not adhere to certain types of shellac


A spray bomb is just a regular spray can that the stuff comes in, that's another reason In don't recomend, because it's kind of a half bout way to do a finish on a cue. It also comes in quarts though. Like I mentioned that was just something I did so I could use the cue, and I'm not really setup properly for the finish yet.

The sealer I guess It would depend on what type, and any sanding that May need done, if it needed sanding that is. but you really just want to seal it good as far as I know, and, if It were me I would use just enough to get It done and get full coverage, but that's just me, and Like I mentioned when it comes to the finish on cues, that's something I'm still working on Myself. I tried a epoxy coat one time and did'nt like the way it sanded, so I am either looking for a different brand, or a different product altogether. I believe that when spraying auto finishes there are some good primer/sealers for that, but I have no idea If any are of use on wood, or clear enough to clear cote over. I know a couple of people around here that may be able to help me with that question, but waiting till I get into the auto finish to find out. If they have stuff that sticks to the newer bumpers then something would probably work on cues, but if It can be bought in clear may be another thing altogether.

The finish is My last big hurdle Myself, I'll have more I'm sure, but right now that's My weakest area, and where I'm at. I suspect that when I get a spray booth setup, I will have more answers, but right now I'm afraid I really don't. There are plenty that could answer better then I.

The shelac and poly, no I did not know that, but never tried it. the poly finish I mentioned, I had tried going right over the cue, and as I mentioned the results were not up to par in My opinion. I'm not real sure how/if someone could make the stuff work, or what sealer would be good with It.

That link you posted- Those little spray bottles look like they could be handy in the right situations, depending on the kind of work someone did, or possibly even touch-up/punchout work.
I use to work with a buddy that owned a bussiness painting custom homes & doing comercial work years back, and We noticed those little refillable spray bottles when the paint stores started carrying them. They looked like they would be nice for getting in tight areas, and keeping the over spray down, but we used an HVLP for our detail work, it worked great with minimal overspray anyhow, and got into most spots we needed, so we never did try one of those out.

Sorry I could'nt be of more help. Maybe in a different area I could've, but I could take many lessons on finishing cues Myself, as you can see :) There really is alot more to it then meets the eye, and each method seems to have it own share of problems.

If no one steps up to the plate, then I suggest doing what your doing and keep running searches, and reading everything you can on the different areas, and experiementing. Lot of info on the web if you can tap into some good sites. Who knows Maybe you will find a method that works, and no one else has used on a cue yet.;) :p Good luck, hope it works out well for you.

Greg C
 
Back
Top