Do carbon fiber cue shafts make custom cues obsolete?

A

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Was reading a fb page for selling scruggs cues. Minimum of 2000 for a sneaky on up to 5000 or more for fancy.the hit of a scruggs is simply like no other they say
Now I have a nice sneaky by Jerry Powers. Jerico. Good cue , no complaints at all. How is a scruggs better than that powers cue?
What about the carbon fiber shafts? Many say the butt doesn't even matter. I do know the prices on custom cues is getting ridiculous.
 
No it doesn't make custom cues obsolete but it makes their shafts obsolete. You will see people just ordering a butt build.

I mentioned asking the sellers that I just want to buy the butt of the cue and they can sell the shafts and make more money on them on an unsuspecting buyer. It's like one of the first thing I ask every buyer is that I only want the butt. So I take the discount. I value custom shafts anywhere from $500-$1000 since people think so highly of them.

I was planning to send a couple of carbon shafts to a cue maker and have them build the cue around the carbon shafts.

Scruggs are very nice cues and shoot very well. They are part of history and sought after. With historical cues I wouldn't slap a carbon shaft on them. Its blasphemy. If I was to get one build or purchased used then I would put a carbon shaft on.
 
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I enjoy using my mezz LD shafts or a carbon shaft on my Black boar, Hercek, Prewitt or any other custom cue I have.

i think the hit of those cues with their original shafts with ivory ferrules are some of the best combos in the business. However, I prefer playing with low deflection shafts. So I sacrifice some hit feel preference for deflection preference but still get to use my custom cues.

also helps keep the original shafts in better condition.
 
I think Scruggs Died years ago, So you only have so many cues available now. I played a Scruggs once many years ago, I really don't remeber how it feels. The quality of work is exceptional.

I do agree the price of custom cues are getting ridicilous, but you do have to remeber the amount of time put into these things. Guys have wood in storage for years before it even gets touched. Would you work on something for months and get paid for very little? Me no. the price of Everything is going up.

I do have my custom cues, sure do. Am i ever going to have one made again nope. I'll stay with a production cue. I don't like knowing i might damage something that is one of a kind.

I wouldn't get a $20 cue stick and attach a CF shaft to a cue and expect it to play the same as a $1k cue. The butt does have some playability to the cue.
 
Objectively carbon shafts are a new technology. Data shows lower deflection values meaning the hit is truer to the center line, therefore its better equipment. Subjectively a player can be more comfortable with a custom wood shaft since its what they are used to and enjoy the "feel" or feedback the hit of wood shaft provides. Its also true that for softer hits you can maneuver a bit better with a wooden shaft if you practice enough with it vs a carbon shaft, since carbon as a material is stiffer. One could argue that for games like One Pocket where you are mostly maneuvering the cue ball and/or position of the object balls a wooden shaft player could excel, however we've seen pro players succeed with carbon shafts.

Another key difference is the manufacturing process of a carbon shaft vs a custom wood shaft. Carbon is more of a manufacturing with machines and tech involve, vs wood shafts which are more of a craft hence higher valued depending on the maker.

I myself made the switch to carbon since I value the newer technology and rather adjust to it than resist it.
 
I disagree……..maple shafts are still popular and Kielwood shafts are becoming the new phase of cue making.
Synthetic shafts likely will forever remain part of anyone’s pool cue options but Kielwood shafts are increasing
in popularity. As far as I’m concerned, I think wood shafts correctly fall within the domain of cue makers and
Kielwood shafts are a special variety of wood shafts. And I trust my cue maker to make the best wood shafts.
 
I've played with Predator shafts for 20+ years. I was using an orginal 314 shaft for many years then i switched to the 314-3. I felt more of a diffrence going from the orginal to the 314-3 then going from a 314-3 to Carbon fiber.

There are a few things i like and don't like about CF. I'm not a glove wearer so if my hands get a little sweaty i need to use a towel instead of powder. No big deal with that. What i like the most about carbon is the consistency, with wood i would feel the swelling or humidity in the shaft, with CF no such feel happens.
 
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jalapus logan said:
I'm still playing with a custom maple shaft. Nice long taper, 12.4 mm and not spliced nor low deflection technology. Only technology is the growth rings baked in by Mother Nature.
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I agree and I started playing pool in the 90's and came across plenty of custom cues with some beautiful shafts up until the 2010's. When I started to notice custom cue shafts weren't as nice as their predecessors. Not sure the reason but could it be builders rushing the process to gets cues completed?

We're talking clean straight maple. Even some of the straight maple cues are blemished today.

It reminds me of cigars. Cuban cigars are rushing their process to meet the demand of the Chinese market. Cuban smokes today are different from 10-15 years ago.
 
I have a few kielwood shafts and they are so stiff I can't play with them unless I convert one to a break shaft. They are from the same cue maker so not sure if other makers kielwood shafts are better. I currently use a carbon shaft but miss the feel, sound and hit of maple. Took some work to fall in with the carbon fiber shaft.
 
I don't think it's carbon shafts necessarily but they're helping move the process along for sure.

The first step was LD shafts. Before that everything was basic maple and ferrule material, taper, wood selection, etc. all factored in greatly to playability. Then LD came along with mass manufacturing techniques, greater consistency (though not perfect consistency), and a performance advantage in their lower deflection.

As people started to adopt those fairly widely there was some lessening of the importance placed on custom cues I feel like. Many people started taking their custom cues and adding these LD shafts to them. I do believe the butt plays a factor in balance and feel, but in actual performance when striking the cue ball I don't think so.

The move to carbon shafts added greater durability and consistency but really didn't add a lot to the performance of LD shafts. But, they added a visual element where they just look so drastically different from a standard cue. As more and more players started adopting the shafts I think the visual change became a big factor. Carbon was seen as modern, performance oriented, consistent, and durable.

That shift also seems to have happened alongside the rise in popularity of screw on rear extensions and while some custom builders are offering those now, and I think all will have to in the future to stay relevant, the production world was on top of that move sooner and with better solutions in a lot of cases.

I think that has all led to a shift towards production cues for a lot of players, or to a smaller group of custom cues that offer these modern features that are then paired up with a carbon shaft. In most of those cases the custom butt is for the visual aspect, respect for the craft of making a handmade cue, and collectability/exclusivity.

I get all sides. I've been playing with a full Predator setup lately and really liking it. It plays great and offers some clear performance advantages. I've spent some time comparing my new rig (K Series Classic 1 cue w/ Revo, BK Rush, and Air Rush) with my previous rig (Runde custom cue, OB break cue, Jacoby jumper) and in all areas the Predator has a performance advantage in my experience. I love having easy screw on extensions (have 8" and 3") and their adjustable weight setup is really quite nice as well. The durability of the carbon shafts and their easy replaceability should something happen means I worry less about them getting knocked around a little while at league. If something happened to my favorite Runde shaft for example I'd be devastated as I'm not sure I could replace it.

But, at the same time, I'm holding onto both my custom Runde w/3 shafts and my South West satin w/2 shafts. I actually had the South West out for a couple days in the last week and marveled and the feel and hit of that cue. It really is a special feel and it moves the cue ball so well. It has a fair bit of deflection and I can adjust, after a time, pretty well for it but I still wasn't making shots with spin as consistently as with my Revo. I also didn't have the ability to quickly and easily add an extension for a bit of added reach.

So for me, I'm probably going to be sticking with my modern production setup for general playing because I really do think I play better with it because of the performance advantages. But I'm going to hold onto a couple customs too because I like them, appreciate the craftsmanship, and because they do tend to feel better IMO.

In the future I think the custom makers that thrive will embrace the modern while still offering their custom touches. Cues built with the knowledge that a user is likely going to add a carbon shaft and joints designed so that they'll fit properly. Perhaps even embracing some of the existing standards for screw in extensions. I love playing with my Predator setup currently but had I been able to find a nice custom that could take a carbon shaft and good screw on extensions easily I likely would have gone that route instead....I like nice handcrafted items and I'm willing to pay extra for them even if they aren't offering me a performance advantage.
 
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slide13 said:
I don't think it's carbon shafts necessarily but they're helping move the process along for sure.

The first step was LD shafts. Before that everything was basic maple and ferrule material, taper, wood selection, etc all factored in greatly to playability. Then LD came along with mass manufacturing techniques, greater consistency (though not perfect consistency), and a performance advantage in their lower deflection.

As people started to adopt those fairly widely there was some lessening of the importance places on custom cues I feel like. Many people started taking their custom cues and adding these LD shafts to them. I do believe the butt plays a factor in balance and feel, but in actual performance when striking the cue ball I don't think so.

The move to carbon shafts added greater durability and consistency but really did add a lot to the performance of LD shafts. But, they added a visual element where they just look so drastically different from a standard cue. As more and more players started adopting the shafts I think the visual change became a big factor. Carbon was seen as modern, performance oriented, consistent, and durable.

That shift also seems to have happened alongside the rise in popularity of screw on rear extensions and while some custom builders are offering those now, and I think all will have to in the future to stay relevant, the production world was on top of that move sooner and with better solutions in a lot of cases.

I think that has all led to a shift towards production cues for a lot of players, or to a smaller group of custom cues that offer these modern features that are then paired up with a carbon shaft. In most of those cases the custom butt is for the visual aspect, respect for the craft of making a handmade cue, and collectability/exclusivity.

I get all sides. I've been playing with a full Predator setup lately and really liking it. It plays great and offers some clear performance advantages. I've spent some time comparing my new rig (K Series Classic 1 cue w/ Revo, BK Rush, and Air Rush) with my previous rig (Runde custom cue, OB break cue, Jacoby jumper) and in all areas the Predator has a performance advantage in my experience. I love having easy screw on extensions (have 8" and 3") and their adjustable weight setup is really quite nice as well. The durability of the carbon shafts and their easy replaceability should something happen means I worry less about them getting knocked around a little while at league. If something happened to my favorite Runde shaft for example I'd be devastated as I'm not sure I could replace it.

But, at the same time, I'm holding onto both my custom Runde w/3 shafts and my South West satin w/2 shafts. I actually had the South West out for a couple days in the last week and marveled and the feel and hit of that cue. It really is a special feel and it moves the cue ball so well. It has a fair bit of deflection and I can adjust, after a time, pretty well for it but I still wasn't making shots with spin as consistently as with my Revo. I also didn't have the ability to quickly and easily add an extension for a bit of added reach.

So for me, I'm probably going to be sticking with my modern production setup for general playing because I really do think I play better with it because of the performance advantages. But I'm going to hold onto a couple customs too because I like them, appreciate the craftsmanship, and because they do tend to feel better IMO.

In the future I think the custom makers that thrive will embrace the modern while still offering their custom touches. Cues built with the knowledge that a user is likely going to add a carbon shaft and joints designed so that they'll fit properly. Perhaps even embracing some of the existing standards for screw in extensions. I love playing with my Predator setup currently but had I been able to find a nice custom that could take a carbon shaft and good screw on extensions easily I likely would have gone that route instead....I like nice handcrafted items and I'm willing to pay extra for them even if they aren't offering me a performance advantage.
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Very well thought out response and I'm very similar to you. I will always love the custom cues because growing up that was it. You buy XYZ cue maker because his cues hit better than anything on the market. Fast forward today there is no way a custom cue will come close to a modern production cue. No way.

With that said, I still shoot with custom cues but not very often. They are for fun and good to stare at and the feel is great BUT in competition/gambling and competitive play the Mezz/Ignite combo is coming out all day.

Not all professional players are sponsored and they are still playing with the Mezz and Predators of the world.
 
You know rolex made a battery powered watch in the 70s right up until the late 90s because the thought was that digital watches would take over and no one would want or appreciate mechanical watches. obviously that didn’t come true, I know the shaft makes it a tad different but I think you will always have people that appreciate the craftsmenship that goes into a hand made cue.
 
trob said:
You know rolex made a battery powered watch in the 70s right up until the late 90s because the thought was that digital watches would take over and no one would want or appreciate mechanical watches. obviously that didn’t come true, I know the shaft makes it a tad different but I think you will always have people that appreciate the craftsmenship that goes into a hand made cue.
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Oysterquartz. I use to dabble in watch collecting.

Yes we will always love custom cues.
 
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trob said:
You know rolex made a battery powered watch in the 70s right up until the late 90s because the thought was that digital watches would take over and no one would want or appreciate mechanical watches. obviously that didn’t come true, I know the shaft makes it a tad different but I think you will always have people that appreciate the craftsmenship that goes into a hand made cue.
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You make a valid point...especially since I'm currently wearing a Sub Date :)

It'll be interesting to see how it shakes out. I think the competitive aspect helps make the cue things a little different....nobody is using a mechanical watch to time races for example...no matter how many Rolex sponsorship signs you may see there. But there is an equal amount of emotional connection to cues as there is to watches I'd say (for people who are into both obviously).

I'll add that for me, I'd much rather play with my custom cues and wood shafts for fun and messing around. But when it comes to serious play, league or tournament play, where making or missing a single ball will have an impact, that is where I'm happy to have my carbon low deflection shafts, extensions, etc. With watches, nothing in my life relies on being accurate to the second or even minute. If my watch is a minute fast or slow my life will go on as normal with absolutely zero impact.
 
CJH said:
I have a few kielwood shafts and they are so stiff I can't play with them unless I convert one to a break shaft. They are from the same cue maker so not sure if other makers kielwood shafts are better. I currently use a carbon shaft but miss the feel, sound and hit of maple. Took some work to fall in with the carbon fiber shaft.
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Cf are stiffer than kielwood. A simple bend test proves that.
 
Random thought. and excuse me if its silly. Could wood and carbon fiber be blended together somehow? To combine the benefits. My first thought was the wood/plastic blended deck material. and yes i know the deck material wouldnt work.
 
slide13 said:
You make a valid point...especially since I'm currently wearing a Sub Date :)

It'll be interesting to see how it shakes out. I think the competitive aspect helps make the cue things a little different....nobody is using a mechanical watch to time races for example...no matter how many Rolex sponsorship signs you may see there. But there is an equal amount of emotional connection to cues as there is to watches I'd say (for people who are into both obviously).

I'll add that for me, I'd much rather play with my custom cues and wood shafts for fun and messing around. But when it comes to serious play, league or tournament play, where making or missing a single ball will have an impact, that is where I'm happy to have my carbon low deflection shafts, extensions, etc. With watches, nothing in my life relies on being accurate to the second or even minute. If my watch is a minute fast or slow my life will go on as normal with absolutely zero impact.
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Don't you think switching between wood and CF has an affect on your game? At some point, you will apply X amount of force to either one and the direction of the CB will change (compared to the other) and you will may make the ball, but do you hit it center pocket, to the left, to the right, and what does that do to your leave.

IMHO, if you want to play at your highest level then you need to stick to one or the other.
 
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