Do you play to win?

Jodacus

Shoot...don't talk
Silver Member
I am driven to practice for the purpose of playing better.
This means that if I play well and lose I'm ok with it. If I
play crappy and lose I really hate it but if I play play crappy
and win I'm still not very happy. So I'm driven to practice
just so I play better and playing better gives me more wins.

So do you practice so that you win and how you play is
irrelevant just so long as you win?

Is either approach psychologically better.

We all love to play but do you practice just to win?

Joe
 
If I'm at a party playing pool, the reaction and approach are totally different.

But if I play in league, or a tournament, then I play to win.

I practice to become better at the game.

If I play poorly, and I still win, then I'm happy. I always believe I can win the game.

If I play well and win, I'm happy.

If I play well and lose, then I'm not happy

If I play poorly and lose, then I'm not happy.
 
This came up briefly the other day at the bar. I practice to learn things and get other things more consistent. That way, when I really play, I know what I can and can't do, given relative probabilities. My serious game is much more conservative than my funsy game. But, every once in a while, one of those "funsy shots" makes an appearance because I either have no choice or I've gotten a good enough understanding to go for it.
 
What you describe is results oriented thinking.

If I asked you 'How do you win', what would you say?


((Think about that for a moment.))


Now, if I asked you 'How do you bake a cake', what would you say?
Maybe you aren't a baker and don't know the very specifics, but you can probably describe what it means. Put some ingredients in a bowl, mix them, put them in a pan and put the pan in the oven. That's a pretty generic statement that most people could make even without very specific knowledge.

The difference in those two questions is that you cannot describe how to win, but you can describe how to bake a cake. That is because the second question is asking for a process. The cake is the result of the baking process. Winning is purely a result.

If you are focused on the process and not the result you are focused on what you can control. I cannot necessarily control if I win, but I can control how I align to the ball, how I stroke the ball, the decisions I make in the course of the game, etcetera. By asking the question 'How do I win' you will almost treat it as a stupid, trivial question because it is seemingly obvious that you must execute these processes. And yet, we so often focus on the result, even if we cannot directly control it.

We want to be process oriented in practice and in game, but we make different decisions. In practice, I may attempt a long, tough, inside english shot over and over to refine technique. In a game, I may decide I'm not as comfortable with that shot as I'd like to be. Maybe that means taking a different positional route, running the balls in a different order, or abandoning the run and playing a safety. In either case, you want to be process oriented.

Pool is a very difficult game because of results oriented thinking. Watching the ball go into the hole is a very satisfying result. Yet, you can make balls and have done nothing 'correct' due to the nature of the physics of the game. This can make repeated results very difficult for players.
 
Pool is a game that cannot be won, only played. The goal of every game in pool is to keep shooting. One may win a match, but they never win the game. Pool is an infinite game.
 
I am driven to practice for the purpose of playing better.
This means that if I play well and lose I'm ok with it. If I
play crappy and lose I really hate it but if I play play crappy
and win I'm still not very happy. So I'm driven to practice
just so I play better and playing better gives me more wins.

So do you practice so that you win and how you play is
irrelevant just so long as you win?

Is either approach psychologically better.

We all love to play but do you practice just to win?

Joe

The way I play is simple. I concentrate on each turn to the table (whether a shot or defense maneauver) and that is my focus.
If that particular turn at the table is the 3-ball or the 150th ball (the winning ball) in a game of 14.1, I only concentrate on that.
There's really no getting "better" at pool per se, what is actually getting better are the individual micro-components, e.g. ball-pocketing, straight path of cue.
Work on the details and the rest will follow.

I don't know if that is a slightly off-topic, but that is my view on how to improve.
 
What you describe is results oriented thinking.

If I asked you 'How do you win', what would you say?


((Think about that for a moment.))


Now, if I asked you 'How do you bake a cake', what would you say?
Maybe you aren't a baker and don't know the very specifics, but you can probably describe what it means. Put some ingredients in a bowl, mix them, put them in a pan and put the pan in the oven. That's a pretty generic statement that most people could make even without very specific knowledge.

The difference in those two questions is that you cannot describe how to win, but you can describe how to bake a cake. That is because the second question is asking for a process. The cake is the result of the baking process. Winning is purely a result.

If you are focused on the process and not the result you are focused on what you can control. I cannot necessarily control if I win, but I can control how I align to the ball, how I stroke the ball, the decisions I make in the course of the game, etcetera. By asking the question 'How do I win' you will almost treat it as a stupid, trivial question because it is seemingly obvious that you must execute these processes. And yet, we so often focus on the result, even if we cannot directly control it.

We want to be process oriented in practice and in game, but we make different decisions. In practice, I may attempt a long, tough, inside english shot over and over to refine technique. In a game, I may decide I'm not as comfortable with that shot as I'd like to be. Maybe that means taking a different positional route, running the balls in a different order, or abandoning the run and playing a safety. In either case, you want to be process oriented.

Pool is a very difficult game because of results oriented thinking. Watching the ball go into the hole is a very satisfying result. Yet, you can make balls and have done nothing 'correct' due to the nature of the physics of the game. This can make repeated results very difficult for players.

brophog,

This is one of the best, well thought-out, intelligent and correct replies that I've ever seen anywhere and I commend you for taking the time to write it and in the process preventing me getting the headache I would've gotten if I had tried to write the same thing in my own words:D.

I will add one thing for the OP; The goal is to play as good as you can play on every shot, in every game no matter the situation. It is the only goal.

ONB
 
I am driven to practice for the purpose of playing better.
This means that if I play well and lose I'm ok with it. If I
play crappy and lose I really hate it but if I play play crappy
and win I'm still not very happy. So I'm driven to practice
just so I play better and playing better gives me more wins.

So do you practice so that you win and how you play is
irrelevant just so long as you win?

Is either approach psychologically better.

We all love to play but do you practice just to win?

Joe

Depends if you are playing for money:)
 
I love playing this game, but I really really hate to miss shots.

So I practice so I could stop missing.
 
I always play to win regardless of who, where, when or why I am playing. If you start altering your game given the situation it creates issues buckling down in tougher situations. IMO of course.
 
I practice to win too, but since I'm still relatively new to the game, I'd say 50% of my motivation is to learn.
 
I first measure my satisfaction, for how I played in a given match, by how well I played. Being a relative new comer to the game, it is foolish to do otherwise because I know I can't beat an A player no matter what. I reflect on how well I did the things I'd been focusing on in my practice.

Last week, I massacred a 5 in 9 ball in league (I'm a 7). My team mates were congratulating me for playing well but I was only partially satisfied as I didn't play poorly but wasn't really sharp either. Last night I played the best player in the league in Masters. I started out snap on the 8, scratch on break, he hit a couple, got a little out of line, missed and I ran out. Next rack was a breaknrun. After that, I think I got to the table 3 times where I had any kind of shot other than the edge of a ball or kick. I had a shot a the next 8 ball game, missed position about half way through the rack and it was game over. Regardless, I felt pretty good about that as I played well. I recognize I have to pick up my game another notch or two in order to win at that level. In another year or so, I believe I will be very competitive with that player. Perhaps not better, but very competitive.

A lot has to do with having realistic expectations. I hope in the not too distant future, I will enter a tournament (local tournament, not big time pro tournament) with the expectation to win or at least finish in the top three. My satisfaction will primarily come from accomplishing that goal. Period. Most league nights, my primary goal is measured by how well I perform against my capability.
 
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