Done with eight ball

[WoodyJ]

Until I save up enough for a house, I have to occasionally use bar boxes to practice. They aren't the best quality but at least I can go through the motions.

I'll put in five or ten bucks and practice whatever I want just to get the itch out of my system for the next few days.

The nightmare begins when someone else wants to play. They never want to learn how to play with proper rules, a common problem, and I end up regretting their presence. I couldn't find a solution to this.

So I've stopped playing eight ball altogether. Now since the table looks different, those coming to the table either won't argue with the rules, or they won't want to play. And I just force myself to feel fine ith hogging the table since a profit is being made anyway.

How have you approached the same problem?

I changed my attititude. I no longer consider it a "nightmare" when someone else wants to play.

If they are worse than me, it's now a blessing that they (a) want to pay for my practice time, (b) give me a chance to practice my social skills and (c) depending on the person, allow me to practice dumping just enough to keep them interested in playing me and feeding the table.

If they are better than me, wonderful. Let's get it on and see what I can learn.

Edit: Oh, almost forgot, when I need to go to the bathroom or otherwise want to take a break, I try to "lose" to the worst player in the room. It gives them a thrill, they get to brag to their cohorts, I usually make a new friend and they often buy me a beer (or vice versa) and proceed to give me the low down on the other players.

Edit2: As far a dumping/losing on purpose goes it's a skill that can be practiced too. Say you want to miss a ball on purpose. Can you do it exactly as planned, then leave your object ball as a blocker for your opponent's ball(s) and/or bury the cue ball in a "safe" place (all in such a way that your opponent has no clue that you just pulled a "chicken$hit" move on him)?

 

[randallt6]

I'd stop taking it so seriously. You are in a bar, it is a communal table.

I practice a lot alone at a pseudo-pool hall. I sometimes get people asking me to play, most of the time I will. It has led to me having a weekly game on saturday afternoons with a 65-70y/o gentleman who literally only comes up to the place (by three busses) to play with me. I don't have his phone number, he doesn't have mine.

Why this is pertinent is because it is a game I thoroughly enjoy and look forward to, but he only plays eightball, ball-in-hand, everything called (EVERYTHING). Is it rules I enjoy? Not really. Are there benefits to playing those rules? Not really.

The point is that playing something different than I would normally play and not being a whiny schoolgirl about it led to a very enjoyable routine.

dld

great post, at the end of the day, no matter what rules you play with, your there to improve your own game, who cares if you win or lose..... of course all this changes when you start playing for money. haha

 

[justadub]

It is complicated. Really.

Even after explaining and agreeing to answers to your questions, it never sinks in, and it always ends with "Well, I never heard of THAT rule before." and they continue to play the way they know. Its pointless to try anymore.

This response makes league players look like geniuses... And you know we can't have that here

If the people that you play are truly that dense, stop worrying about it, and let them pay for your practice time. It is what you make of it. Yes, you would rather see some penalty for a foul, I get that. In this case you can't arrange for that, so work on other aspects of your game. Shots you might not otherwise take, but could use practice on. Harder than usual, or softer. Banks and kicks. I'd say safeties, but that might create a bigger problem. But two-way shots could be suitable in such an environment.

I find it hard to believe that none of the people there can understand other rule sets, but people always find a way to surprise me.

Try to have some fun. Pool should have a social element to it, especially in a bar.

 

[Banks]

I am going to the bar to practice and to hog the table for myself. You are right; I should show up early before the crowd. I think I usually do.

So now it is back to the question of my happiness vs. other's happiness which is where I had a conflict in the first place. The solution was halfway, by refusing those who wish to play 8-ball all-together.

A coin op table in a bar is by it's nature a challenge table. You have no right to hog the table to yourself. While you can suggest what rule set you'd like to play by, you're looking for conflict if you say it's your way or the highway.

Seriously, if you want individual practice, go to a pool hall. When you go to a bar, if you want to get along with the other patrons you should seriously leave your ego and your "my rules are superior" attitude at the door.

Bar-rules 8-ball=Miniature Golf.

Bar rules 8 on a barbox.. good stuff.. nothing quite like a game where you have to do what you say and utterly hose yourself if you give someone a chance to hide you from your last ball.

You never did answer the question of what you think that your level of play is. If you were playing true "2" level players, they'd most likely quit after the first game, or you're just getting started yourself.

If you can't beat hacks hands-down at bar 8, then you'd better hope you don't run into anybody that knows 9 or 10.

What Greenman said, too.. it's a bar, which makes the tables "not yours". If you keep brushing off the other patrons, you'll probably need to find another place to go.

Bar 8 rules.. find me another game outside of bank pool where you have to call your shots so clearly. No need to call caroms and such in 10b, etc. Bar 8 teaches you to be verify specific about what you're doing and to execute it as planned. People take that for granted.. there's a good mix of execution and strategy, cuz it's too easy to screw yourself.

 

[nrhoades]

Why?

Actually, I think the answers you got run the gamut, and appropriately cover a wide demographic:

• Those that say the coin-op table is a communal table, and is noone's "property." You can't claim it for yourself, and every bar patron has the right to challenge you for "ownership" of the table. This is especially true in places where there is only one table.
  
  
• Those that say if there are multiple tables in the place (i.e. two, three, or more), your response to a challenge should be, "of the three tables in this place, this is the $5 (or $10) table, played using so-and-so rules. Are you sure you want to play?" This gives the challenger an option -- a choice. It's not "hogging" the table, because 1.) there are other tables in the place he/she can easily move to if your "rules" are not amenable to him/her, and 2.) you're not exactly turning the person away either -- you're just stipulating that this table, which you've "won," has certain stipulations on it, including a certain game to be played, with a wager.
  
  
• 8-ball is the "universal" game on coin-op tables, because of the standard bar-banger's perception of "getting his/her money's worth" -- i.e. all 15 balls on the table that he/she "paid for." Also, this game of "stripes and solids" (or "reds and yellows" if you're playing British blackball) is readily identifiable to any person. The concept is simple -- sink all the balls of your category, then you get the privilege of sinking the 8-ball (blackball) for the win. The problem with any game that's "universal" but not universally refereed/sanctioned, and played by "commoners," is that the house will sometimes make up their own rules. Bar-bangers have this perception that "calling every contact" -- every single cushion, carom, tickie, etc. -- somehow "demonstrates more skill." Obviously we here know this not to be true, as the reverse is true -- it creates more arguments than it solves. But it is what it is, and you have to deal with it. Just ask about (and agree upon) the rules before the first rack is broken.
  
  
• Those that say the "my way or the highway" approach to a communal table is elitist. There's a valid point to this, whether you like to hear it or not. You may be engaging in a little game of "buying up the assets, and leaving the liabilities behind" so-to-speak -- meaning, you only see what you want to see, because it pleases *you*. If you ask your opponent to play this way, but will relent if he/she refuses, then that's a different matter. (At least you offered, but settled to play the game the opponent wanted to play -- in the spirit of the rules of a communal table in a public place.)

I think you got a lot of good/varied answers to your post, and it is generating a lot of discussion -- some of which you "may not want to hear" (see last point above). But remember, that's the point of a public discussion forum!

I think you're right. I didn't like the idea that I was sounding arrogant; not my intentions. But maybe that was the nature of my question. There was a good cross-section of responses.

It appears that a pay-by-game table should not be controlled. If I want to own a table, I'll have to buy one. If someone doesn't understand what I want to play, then I can always just leave.

 

[nrhoades]

Bar rules 8 on a barbox.. good stuff.. nothing quite like a game where you have to do what you say and utterly hose yourself if you give someone a chance to hide you from your last ball.

You never did answer the question of what you think that your level of play is. If you were playing true "2" level players, they'd most likely quit after the first game, or you're just getting started yourself.

If you can't beat hacks hands-down at bar 8, then you'd better hope you don't run into anybody that knows 9 or 10.

What Greenman said, too.. it's a bar, which makes the tables "not yours". If you keep brushing off the other patrons, you'll probably need to find another place to go.

Bar 8 rules.. find me another game outside of bank pool where you have to call your shots so clearly. No need to call caroms and such in 10b, etc. Bar 8 teaches you to be verify specific about what you're doing and to execute it as planned. People take that for granted.. there's a good mix of execution and strategy, cuz it's too easy to screw yourself.

I'm about a middle C. I don't know what that is in APA. I usually win on a 7-foot table, but maybe my point is that I don't enjoy it.

 

[Rocket354]

I think you're right. I didn't like the idea that I was sounding arrogant; not my intentions. But maybe that was the nature of my question. There was a good cross-section of responses.

It appears that a pay-by-game table should not be controlled. If I want to own a table, I'll have to buy one. If someone doesn't understand what I want to play, then I can always just leave.

I more or less agree with everything you've said in this thread. Bar pool players are obnoxious and typically play an awful game with awful rules. But that's why I never play bar pool. In the exceedingly rare event that I do, I grit my teeth and bare it; I play by their rules for as long as I can stomach and/or I treat it (I love the comparison someone above made) like I treat miniature golf: I treat it like a meaningless leisure activity.

 

[supergreenman]

I changed my attititude. I no longer consider it a "nightmare" when someone else wants to play.

If they are worse than me, it's now a blessing that they (a) want to pay for my practice time, (b) give me a chance to practice my social skills and (c) depending on the person, allow me to practice dumping just enough to keep them interested in playing me and feeding the table.

If they are better than me, wonderful. Let's get it on and see what I can learn.

Edit: Oh, almost forgot, when I need to go to the bathroom or otherwise want to take a break, I try to "lose" to the worst player in the room. It gives them a thrill, they get to brag to their cohorts, I usually make a new friend and they often buy me a beer (or vice versa) and proceed to give me the low down on the other players.

Edit2: As far a dumping/losing on purpose goes it's a skill that can be practiced too. Say you want to miss a ball on purpose. Can you do it exactly as planned, then leave your object ball as a blocker for your opponent's ball(s) and/or bury the cue ball in a "safe" place (all in such a way that your opponent has no clue that you just pulled a "chicken$hit" move on him)?

Best way to lose on purpose with bar rules is to hook yourself on the 8 and make some valiant effort to make it.

 

[mdavis228]

I don't know where you're located, but I hope you're able to find the level of players you're looking for to compete with. I can tell you this... In my area, you don't have to look far to find somebody to make bar table 8 ball as as competitive as you want, and I'm talking BIH & call pocket. But I'll play "fun rules" with folks just about anytime for a while if the setting dictates. It's a perspective thing.
However, when I hear somebody say "call shot", I usually start looking for an exit. If they don't know to say call pocket, they probably are a potential pain in the ass.

 

[The Renfro]

I changed my attititude. I no longer consider it a "nightmare" when someone else wants to play.

If they are worse than me, it's now a blessing that they (a) want to pay for my practice time, (b) give me a chance to practice my social skills and (c) depending on the person, allow me to practice dumping just enough to keep them interested in playing me and feeding the table.

If they are better than me, wonderful. Let's get it on and see what I can learn.

Edit: Oh, almost forgot, when I need to go to the bathroom or otherwise want to take a break, I try to "loose" to the worst player in the room. It gives them a thrill, they get to brag to their cohorts, I usually make a new friend and they often buy me a beer (or vice versa).

Edit2: As far a dumping/loosing on purpose goes it's an skill that can be practiced too. Say you want to miss a ball on purpose. Can you do it exactly as planned and then leave your ball as a blocker for your opponent's ball(s)?

I will never for the life of me understand why so many people think there is an art form or skill to hustling or dumping...... Sure there are different moves you can pull and different roles you can play but it's not like it's rocket science...

My favorite one is "the lucky pr1ck"... You win the games you need to and should and then when you need to let the opponent win or feel like they have a chance instead of just laying down and giving them a game, you let chance decide it and you shoot a flyer at the game ball or you get multiple balls rolling towards the hole..... I can't tell you the number of times I have been called lucky and they never even know that in all honesty I would have played safe on the balls I lucked in if I thought they really had a shot of beating me....... I love playing cheap sets and local tournaments this way since even if you win no one thinks twice about it....

He can't play... He just gets lucky..... I kind of like the sound of that.....

 

[Banks]

Okay okay okay..

I hear all the time about people calling APA a "slop" league. Of course, then they like BCA rules.. where you can still miss a shot, have it go 4 rails and still make the "correct" pocket.

But then people complain about having to make your shot intentionally, the way that you plan?

Maybe 9-ball is better suited for some..

 

[WoodyJ]

Best way to lose on purpose with bar rules is to hook yourself on the 8 and make some valiant effort to make it.

Yep, the best way to lose anytime under any 8-ball rules is to shoot yourself into one-ball-hell (especially against a good player).

 

[twal]

Find a pool hall, a bar table is a table to be used by all

I think why this post is getting so much attention is because most of us all started on a bar box.
I have great memories of hanging out having a few drinks and banging around on the table. That is when I first fell in love with this game.

Yeah, sure there was some ass out there who wanted to manipulate the rules to his advantage but that was all part of learning the game. There are a lot of different ways to play the game. My curiosity of what can or cannot be done on a poll table within the confines of the rules turned into a great hobby for me and I assume all of us here.

I envision some poor 23-24 yrs old kid who barely knows what end to hold and he is wondering why you are being so uptight about it.

I want you to think about this next time you want to hog the only table in the bar because you want to practice: the game is played for fun. If you can’t have fun with it, then walk away. Find a pool hall, a bar table belongs to the bar and open to everyone.

A prior post made an excellent point that you need to be able to adapt to multiple environments and table conditions. Not to mention other players.

So my main point here is that you need to get over yourself. You don’t own the table. Maybe pick a different time and different bar or just go to a pool hall and rent a table. If you decide to stay at the same place, have some FUN and loosen up. You can make a positive impact on the sport just by having fun no matter what the situation is.

 

[mrjobe]

...when I hear somebody say "call shot", I usually start looking for an exit. If they don't know to say call pocket, they probably are a potential pain in the ass.

The problem with that, as stated, is you can miss your shot go 4 rails and still make it.

I just played a BCA rule tourney, the guy called a pocket missed went 3-4 rails and made it but was hooked. He went to sit down and I said, "not to be a dick but...you called that pocket."

Personally, I dont care what the rules are thats just the game we play. I hate hit one of yours first and pocket any of yours anywhere and it counts. Thats straight up slop. But iof those are the rules you can bet your ass I'm playing by them.

I learned to play in a bar where it was call your shot period. It gets a little excessive when the ball hits the rail 1" before the pocket and your opponent want to call foul.

I dont know how many times I've embarresed myself calling a shot in 9-bal

 

[DallasHopps]

Going back to any variation of bar rules after achieving any level of skill is frustrating. Just acknowledge that -that- particular place/table is for dicking off while drinking and possibly good for $5 big local action... It's just never going to be a place for serious games.
Have you ever tried to call everything that's going to happen when there's a dead combination tied up inside a cluster? It takes longer to describe than finding it, aiming, and shooting. It also kills the aforementioned $5 action

 

[nrhoades]

Going back to any variation of bar rules after achieving any level of skill is frustrating. Just acknowledge that -that- particular place/table is for dicking off while drinking and possibly good for $5 big local action... It's just never going to be a place for serious games.

I like this. I think I will acknowledge it.

Maybe I do need an attitude adjustment and just face the fact that I can't play to the level I want to unless I buy a table, or drive an hour to my closest pool hall. There aren't very many good players where I live.

 

[ctyhntr]

Players in my neck of the woods that play both APA and 9-ball leagues and tournaments, as a middle C you could be a high 6 or 7 in the APA.

I'm not sure if you can improve your game further by playing even up with APA 2s on a barbox. Easy wins are good to stroke one's ego, but may end up hurting your other pool skills.

I'm guessing you're beating them just by out shooting them. Which may neglect other skills such as safety, position play, and thinking 3 balls ahead.

You should listen to some of the advice being offered, and not take the social players so serious. Practice when the bar isn't busy, but stop playing when the bar fills up. The social players don't understand your goals, and they have no intentions of getting any better. You may save yourself some unnecessary frustration.

Try to look into local leagues and tournaments to maintain your competitive edge.

I'm about a middle C. I don't know what that is in APA. I usually win on a 7-foot table, but maybe my point is that I don't enjoy it.

 

[nrhoades]

Players in my neck of the woods that play both APA and 9-ball leagues and tournaments, as a middle C you could be a high 6 or 7 in the APA.

I'm not sure if you can improve your game further by playing even up with APA 2s on a barbox. Easy wins are good to stroke one's ego, but may end up hurting your other pool skills.

I'm guessing you're beating them just by out shooting them. Which may neglect other skills such as safety, position play, and thinking 3 balls ahead.

You should listen to some of the advice being offered, and not take the social players so serious. Practice when the bar isn't busy, but stop playing when the bar fills up. The social players don't understand your goals, and they have no intentions of getting any better. You may save yourself some unnecessary frustration.

Try to look into local leagues and tournaments to maintain your competitive edge.

That's true. I'm think I'm trying too hard to inspire them. I'm looking in the wrong place. What I need to do is find some friends who will play regularly.

 

[WoodyJ]

I like this. I think I will acknowledge it.

Maybe I do need an attitude adjustment and just face the fact that I can't play to the level I want to unless I buy a table, or drive an hour to my closest pool hall. There aren't very many good players where I live.

Now you're talking. I did two things to change myself and how I relate to the guys at the local bar:

(1) I stopped trying to put lipstick on a pig (i.e., playing exclusively in the local bar's non-BIH tournament) and went to other BIH tournaments within driving distance.

(2) Joined the nearest local pool league that plays BIH (ball-in-hand) 8-ball.

(3) Remodeled/beefed-up/covered my deck so I could put a gold crown on it.

If doable for you, I'd suggest you try (1) and (2) above in order to vary your competition.

I met my best friend playing at the local bar.

When we play at my place he grits his teeth, plays BIH rules, hates safeties with a passion and grumbles a lot (probably all the while thinking about how I play chicken$hit pool and as a result I have a deep lack of moral character).

When I play with him at the local bar I play by their rules, try and keep my mouth shut and have fun. I've even gotten over trying to get them to use a good cue ball (I donated one to the house once but they liked their big rock better). It's their little pond so I try to play nice these days.

 

[ctyhntr]

If your intention is to inspire, talk with bar owner and see if he/she would let you organize a local tournament around that barbox. Maybe you'll get some local competition to step to play you.

Last year I was helping a friend run a neighborhood 10-ball tournament. The pool hall owner gave us free table time on 4-6 tables for 6-8 hours to run the tournament. Players who were knocked out of the tournament, we invited to stay to practice on the allocated tables. This made them feel like they were getting their money's worth. Even if you lose the $25 entry, you just got 6 hours of pool. The owner made his money on selling beer and food.