Double Kiss sure shot?

[Tokyo-dave]

In the place where I play, there is one table where I can double kiss this shot in with enough consistency to consider it a 'low' risk shot, and never hesitate to attempt. However, on other tables, I haven't been able to find the trick to make it go. My question is: Is this a shot that, although possible to make, shouldn't be considered a good option? Or is there a trick or set of rules that can be used as a guideline to determine weather or not it's something worth attempting?
On the table that I can make this shot consistently, I'll strike the CB fairly firm with follow, and aim ever so slight from a full hit. In the case of the diagram, I would hit the OB just a touch right of center. My reasoning is that it needs to be thick enough to prevent the CB from getting out of the way of the returning OB, but at the same time, a little off center to avoid the ball being kicked straight back it's original position.
Thanks,
dave
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[Pinocchio]

????????

If balls are the same I don't understand either. If the cue balls are different weight that could make the difference.
Pinocchio

 

[Jal]

I think draw works better than follow on these type of shots (consider what happens on the second kiss).

You didn't say what the object ball does when you miss?

Jim

 

[Tokyo-dave]

I think draw works better than follow on these type of shots (consider what happens on the second kiss).

You didn't say what the object ball does when you miss?

Jim

I haven't tried draw on any of my attempts. Like I said, I've got the shot nailed on one of the tables, but it just doesn't work as consistently on the other tables. I'm just wondering what it might be with the particular table that I'm playing on that makes this shot so much easier and consistent because believe it or not, it's the tightest table in the room.
Just wondering if this is just one of those 'fluke' types of shots that shouldn't be practiced and considered an addition to an arsenal, or is there a fail safe set of rules and guidelines to make it a pretty reliable shot? (must be frozen to the cushion, can be about 5mm off the cushion, needs to be extremely close to the pocket, ect???)
A top pro pulled this shot on me a couple of years ago as if it was 2nd nature, whereas for me, with the exception of the one particular table I've mentioned, it's not a shot that I would consider in a tournament or money match type situation.
dave

 

[jsp]

This is your shot...

CueTable Help

You never answered Jal's question on what the OB does when you miss. If you do miss, I'm guessing the OB goes straight to point A after it double-kisses with the CB.

My best guess to your inconsistent results is that, for the shots that you miss, the OB has comparatively more top-spin coming off the rail. When the OB hits the CB a second time, the extra top-spin deviates it's tangent path to the pocket, such that it hits point A. For the shots you do make, the top-spin coming off the rail is negligible, such that on the second kiss the OB more closely follows the tangent path to the pocket.

So what would cause the OB to have more top-spin coming off the rail? Many factors...higher rails?..slower cloth? Whatever the cause, I think the reason why you would miss the shot is too much top-spin on the OB after it rebounds of the rail.

As Jal mentioned, try using draw on the CB. Maybe with follow, the CB transfers bottom-spin on the CB such that it retains this same spin coming off the rail, which is actually top-spin coming back the other way. If you use draw, the OB might retain the opposite spin coming of the rail.

Just a couple of guesses.

Good topic. I actually wanted to take a whole chunk of time and exhaustively study the art of the double-kiss shot and experiment with all types of englishes, speeds, etc. I think the double kiss can definitely bail you out on many sticky situations, such as the situation you presented.

 

[briandlau]

A fine gentleman by the name of Steve Lipsky showed me a slight variation of this shot with cue ball slightly off of the short rail. I have since been able to make this shot with more consistency rail first using right hand english. You want to come into the OB full. The double kiss with english will throw the OB into the pocket.

 

[Snapshot9]

I have

studied and practiced double kiss shots, and I use them for safety play.

They can come in handy, and most players don't even think of double kissing for safety play.

I am not talking the real soft ones, I am talking ones that kick the cue ball clear away after double kissing, and sometimes leaving the OB behind another ball.