Double Kiss

[drivermaker]

Yesterday on one of the court T.V. programs, Texas Justice, 2 guys were in court with one suing the other for medical costs of over $800 after taking a
one-two to the mouth and having his lip split wide open. It was a result of a pool game that they were having in a bar and both were arguing with each other all night over supposed fouls. One guy called a foul on the other because after the shooter called the pocket, the OB struck the long rail before going in and the one calling the foul said it was because he didn't call a bank or rail first, even though it went in. Later, the other guy called a foul on the other foul caller because when he shot into a called pocket it bounced out of the pocket, kissed the cue ball and went back in, so he got called for not calling the kiss, even though it went into the called pocket. They ended up getting into each other's face and one guy popped the other one.

To clear up the mess, the judge brought in an "expert" witness, Vivian Villareal, who had a pool table set up in the court room so she could prove her expertise by rifling in a bunch of balls three rails in a trick shot. As they explained their fouls to her which was the cause of their angst, she explained that as long as the OB went into the called pocket, the rest of it didn't matter and that they were both wrong in calling a foul. She also stated that the guy was wrong in his interpretation of a "Double Kiss" and explained what it was. What is YOUR understanding of what constitutes a double kiss and what exactly is it? I was starting to wonder about Vivian's credibility as an expert witness, but maybe I don't know and will end up in court one day also.

BTW, even though the one guy provoked it and was in the face of the other one who popped him, the guy that whacked the other guy got stuck for his medical bills and it could have been more if he had asked for it.

 

[bill190]

There is "Call shot-1", "Call Shot-2", and Call Pocket"...

"Call Shot -1" with "bar pool" rules can be making it into the pocket including bouncing off a rail on the way in and no need to call the bounce. Typically with this type of play, you need to call it if it hits another ball on the way in or call a bank shot. Then there is "strict" "Call Shot" bar pool where every little thing must be called including every time it touches a rail or another ball. The reason it varies is because each bar has its own rules (seldom in writing). It is best for tournaments to not ever play this way as it causes so many arguments.

"Call Shot-2" is the same thing as "Call Pocket" and is described in some rules as being the same as "Call Pocket". (Adds confusion to all this...)

With "Call Pocket", the ball can hit rails, run around the table 3 times, hit other balls on the way, but if it lands in the pocket, it is good! Just say which pocket it will drop in.

Some players have never played in bars where they play "Call Shot-1". They have only played in leagues and are only familiar with "call Pocket". They don't know what bar rules are. Sounds like that "expert" was one of these. They should have had a "hustler" type player as their expert, who would have been familiar with bar rules in various parts of the country.

A "Double Kiss" to me is when a cue ball hits the object ball twice - period. This also happens when the object ball is very close to the cue ball and it is hit with a straight hit. (Push shot)

 

[CaptainJR]

I thought a double kiss was when guy 1 hit guy2 in the mouth the second time with his Peter. Then.. OOOHHH I'm sorry, wrong thread sorry sorry sorry

 

[Rickw]

I agree with Bill190 except I don't know about "Call shot 1 and 2". If they were playing call shot, then both players committed fouls because when you play call shot, you have to call exactly how the ob is going to be pocketed, i.e., all banks, kisses, etc. If you play call pocket, it doesn't matter how the ball got there, of course general rules of the game apply, as long as the ob goes into the pocket you call.

As far as Vivian being an expert witness, you are correct Drivermaker, she is not. If they want to know the best way to shoot a ball, maybe but not when the rules are in question. The proper expert witness for that would have been Steve Tipton, Scott Smith or some other experienced pool official. You wouldn't ask Shaq to tell you all the rules in basketball, you'd ask one of the officials.

 

[Walt in VA]

If they were playing call shot, then both players committed fouls because when you play call shot, you have to call exactly how the ob is going to be pocketed, i.e., all banks, kisses, etc. If you play call pocket, it doesn't matter how the ball got there, of course general rules of the game apply, as long as the ob goes into the pocket you call.

Depends on the rules and your definition of "call shot" - BCA 8-Ball rules state:
"Rule 4.2 CALL SHOT -
In Call Shot, obvious balls and pockets do not have to be indicated. It is the opponent’s right to ask which ball and pocket if he is unsure of the shot. Bank shots and combination shots are not considered obvious, and care should be taken in calling both the object ball and the intended pocket. When calling the shot, it is never necessary to indicate details such as the number of cushions, banks, kisses, caroms, etc. " )

BCA "General Rules of Pocket Billiards" Rule 3.4 - "CALLING SHOTS
For games of call-shot a player may shoot any ball he chooses, but before he shoots, must designate the called ball and called pocket. He need not indicate any detail such as kisses, caroms, combinations, or cushions (all of which are legal). " (My emphasis added)

Most players I know define "Call Shot" as calling ball and pocket. Calling every cushion touch. kiss, and carom is an example of "bar rules" played in bars where no one has ever seen a BCA rule book. JMHO

Walt in VA

 

[drivermaker]

As far as a double kiss goes, Vivian didn't classify the shot that was described as a double kiss either. She said that the ONLY double kiss was, as Bill190 described a push shot in his post when the balls are touching. Where have I been my whole life?

Based on the judges decision, I guess the moral to the story is if someone really pisses you off and you want to pop them, you're better off going into the Men's room or home and just spanking your Peter. It'll end up costing you a lot more money than just losing a match.