Draw shot question

[carlton31698]

When I draw the cb hard I tend to hit my self in the chest. I never do this on a normal draw shot, only when I draw the length of the table. I have a good draw shot, I get the shape I am shooting for, but it drives me crazy b/c I know I am doing something wrong. What should I do to fix this, or should I leave it alone? Thanks for your help

 

[Rickw]

Draw Shot

When you stroke hard to draw the length of the table, you need to follow through quite a bit. Try following through with your cue in slow motion. You will see that after about 8" or so, your grip hand will start to come up towards your chest. This is a natural occurrence. What you can do to compensate for this is to drop your elbow on extreme follow through shots. If you don't believe me, check out the video "Pool School" with Jim Rempe and Loree John Jones.

 

[Hogman]

Dropping your elbow will definitely help; just make sure that you drop the elbow after the tip makes contact with the ball, or you will be taking speed off the shot.

Also, check your stance. If you are standing too in-line with the table, or if your front foot (left foot for right-handers) is under the cue line instead of to the left of it, then your hand will naturally smack you on the follow through. If this is the case move the front foot out to the side and change the body position accordingly to provide room to stroke.

 

[Bluewolf]

I just keep my cue in the 'follow freeze' position, move it horizontally away from the shot. The tendency seems to jerk back in fear that the drawn ball will come back and hit the cue. And yes, if the cue is jerked back hard enough, it could hit a person in the chest. I just do not see how a person could be hitting themself in the chest, unless they were jerking back the cue.

On all shots, I follow freeze, stand up, then bring the cue into a kind of salute until the next shot.

I feeze until the ob is pocketed. But on a draw, particularly a hard fast one, a person cannot stay in that position this long w/o the ball hitting the cue as it flies backwards. That is why I think many people jerk the cue back. This also results in an incomplete stroke.

just my .02.

Laura

 

[Rickw]

Draw Shot

Laura,

I'm not sure if you're understanding what the issue is or I'm misreading your post (probably the latter of the two). What I think is happening in the original post is his stroke hand comes up and hits him in the chest as he finishes his follow through. If you bend over without a cue in your hand and you restrict the movement of your arm to just the elbow and move your arm to emulate stroking the cue imagining stroking as far as you can forward, you will see that your hand starts coming up to your chest. I believe this is the problem the first poster is having. When you are playing the action on the cue is for the butt of the cue to raise up and the tip to dip down. Again, this occurs with radical follow-through. One way to prevent this from happening is to drop your elbow as you're following through. When you first try this, it feels really awkward. If you like to follow through more than 8 inches, this is a technique that is probably essential for a player to utilize. For most people, the only time they follow through this much is for a long power draw shot and that's why he's having the problem.

If I have this wrong, please let me know.

 

[carlton31698]

Rickw
“…his stroke hand comes up and hits him in the chest as he finishes his follow through. If you bend over without a cue in your hand and you restrict the movement of your arm to just the elbow and move your arm to emulate stroking the cue imagining stroking as far as you can forward, you will see that your hand starts coming up to your chest. I believe this is the problem the first poster is having. When you are playing the action on the cue is for the butt of the cue to raise up and the tip to dip down. Again, this occurs with radical follow-through. One way to prevent this from happening is to drop your elbow as you're following through. When you first try this, it feels really awkward. If you like to follow through more than 8 inches, this is a technique that is probably essential for a player to utilize. For most people, the only time they follow through this much is for a long power draw shot and that's why he's having the problem.”

This is exactly what I have been doing. I’m not sure what you mean by “drop your elbow” Will you explain it? Thanks Carlton31698

 

[Rickw]

Draw Shot

Carlton,

This is going to be a little difficult to explain. Here goes:

With cue stick in hand, pretend you're shooting a shot but don't have the cue ball in front of you. Slowly follow through until your tip starts to dip. Now, lower your elbow raising the tip and continue to follow through. You move your elbow down towards the table. Does this make any sense? You should feel how your elbow has to drop when you do this exercise. Incorporating this into your game takes a little practice because it doesn't feel comfortable at first. But, what the heck, that happens every time you try something new, doesn't it?

 

[Bluewolf]

Rickw
“…his stroke hand comes up and hits him in the chest as he finishes his follow through. If you bend over without a cue in your hand and you restrict the movement of your arm to just the elbow and move your arm to emulate stroking the cue imagining stroking as far as you can forward, you will see that your hand starts coming up to your chest. One way to prevent this from happening is to drop your elbow as you're following through. .”

This is exactly what I have been doing. I’m not sure what you mean by “drop your elbow” Will you explain it? Thanks Carlton31698

Gosh this is beyond me. I never thought of this. I never drop my elbow on any shot. It was conditioned so much in lessons with scott lee and randy g, that when fast larry wanted to show me a power shot, it took him an HOUR to get me to drop my elbow so that I could make the shot.

My usual stroke is the dream of a pool instructor except when I have hand tremors, then I do a kind of 'poke stroke' like you see the op players doing.

Anyway, what you are talking about, I still cannot visualize.

Laura

 

[Rickw]

Draw Shot

Laura,

Check out the pool tape, "Pool School" with Jim Rempe and Loree John-Jones. Jim demonstrates what happens when you don't drop your elbow, I think he called it an "S" stroke or something because of the way the cue tip moves. This tape, by the way, was very well done. The production is first rate. It also has some excellent visual effects that help you understand what they're trying to say. Sorry I didn't do a very good job of articulating this.

 

[Bluewolf]

Re: Draw Shot

Laura,

Check out the pool tape, "Pool School" with Jim Rempe and Loree John-Jones. Jim demonstrates what happens when you don't drop your elbow, I think he called it an "S" stroke or something because of the way the cue tip moves. This tape, by the way, was very well done. The production is first rate. It also has some excellent visual effects that help you understand what they're trying to say. Sorry I didn't do a very good job of articulating this.

Huh? All of the instructors I know teach not to drop your elbow unless you are doing a power stroke like the break. My forearm finidhes in the 'home' position just touching my bicept with the cue pointed at the cloth. Are you saying this is wrong?

Laura

 

[Joseph Cues]

Re: Re: Draw Shot

Huh? All of the instructors I know teach not to drop your elbow unless you are doing a power stroke like the break. My forearm finidhes in the 'home' position just touching my bicept with the cue pointed at the cloth. Are you saying this is wrong?

Laura

I know Scott advocates the "salute" follow where you don't drop the elbow. But, most pros drop their elbow.
The disadvantage of not dropping the elbow is a short follow thru and prolly more miscues.
Jim Rempe advocates dropping the elbow and letting your wrist "limp" at the end of the stroke.
Of course these argument can be ended if you really follow Scott's statement about a good stroke. A good stroke is a good throwing motion. If you throw the cue , it wouldn't matter where your elbow is because that cue will travel in a perfect line.

 

[Bluewolf]

Re: Re: Re: Draw Shot

Of course these argument can be ended if you really follow Scott's statement about a good stroke. A good stroke is a good throwing motion. If you throw the cue , it wouldn't matter where your elbow is because that cue will travel in a perfect line. [/B]

My follow through is equal to the bridge. ie if using a 12 inch bridge, follow 12 in past the cb. on short poke strokes, only 2-4 in follow. Since I am not very good, i tend to increase my percentage on long difficult shots by using a short poke type stroke. guess really good players can do a full stroke and get those shots in, but I am not there yet.

OTOH, this other instructor taught me this power stroke for breaking. still working on that one.

Laura

 

[Joseph Cues]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Draw Shot

My follow through is equal to the bridge. ie if using a 12 inch bridge, follow 12 in past the cb. on short poke strokes, only 2-4 in follow. Since I am not very good, i tend to increase my percentage on long difficult shots by using a short poke type stroke. guess really good players can do a full stroke and get those shots in, but I am not there yet.

OTOH, this other instructor taught me this power stroke for breaking. still working on that one.

Laura

Try letting the cue slide. I don't think shortening the stroke increases accuracy at all. I think, lengthening the backstroke (as long as you pull in line) increases accuracy.
If you can't throw the stick in line with the shot, then you are not in line. That's why throwing the cue makes so much sense.
If your bridge and the web of your shooting hand are in line, you are dead on, imo.

 

[Rickw]

Draw Shot

"Of course these argument can be ended if you really follow Scott's statement about a good stroke. A good stroke is a good throwing motion. If you throw the cue , it wouldn't matter where your elbow is because that cue will travel in a perfect line."

I totally agree with you. As a matter of fact, the stroke you describe above is what I use. My first post was just intended to explain why the initial poster was hitting his chest. I didn't want to pass judgment on his stroke preference.

 

[Bluewolf]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Draw Shot

Try letting the cue slide. I don't think shortening the stroke increases accuracy at all. I think, lengthening the backstroke (as long as you pull in line) increases accuracy.

I have a hand tremor. I have always thought it would be better if it was the same all of the time. But it is not. Sometimes it is mild, sometimes severe, sometimes not at all. When it is severe, my arm shakes all over the place in a full stroke. When this happens, I shorten my bridge and have a shorter stroke. I do try to follow no matter how short my stroke is. Follow and freeze is a very useful diagnostic tool for me in addition to being good form.

Throwing the cue? The only thing that keeps the cue was flying forward is that I play without a glove with a wooden butt. If I play with irish linen, the cue tends to slip forward more. I have a very light grip when playing right handed. When playing leftie, my grip is a little too firm, been working on that one.

I appear to be non-dominant but use my right because I used my right all my life. Have just discovered since pool that I was born probably ambidextrous.

Laura

 

[Blackjack]

It is probably better that the tremor is in your shooting hand, reather than being in your bridge hand. You could compensate the tremor in your shooting hand (which you have probably already done subconsciously) but is your bridge hand had the tremor you would never hit the ball as the bridge would not be still. There is a local player here named Art Canales (father of Dallas player Mando Canales) that has a hand tremor in his shooting hand. Art can still shoot a respectable game depsite this problem (doesn't seem to be a problem to him, nor have I ever heard him make a reference to the problem - ever). I beleiev that if we are determined enough, our mind finds ways to work around these problems, and before long, it's as if they never existed. What you might want to do, Laura, is get in touch with Bob Fancher and ask him some questions regarding this subject. Read his article on the dominant eye theory and get a semblence of what I am referring to. It's only a problem if you are consciously aware of it. As a former road player, you learn how to point these things out to your victims, therefore diverting their attention to their deficiencies and not their strengths.

 

[Bluewolf]

It is probably better that the tremor is in your shooting hand, reather than being in your bridge hand. You could compensate the tremor in your shooting hand (which you have probably already done subconsciously) but is your bridge hand had the tremor you would never hit the ball as the bridge would not be still. There is a local player here named Art Canales (father of Dallas player Mando Canales) that has a hand tremor in his shooting hand. Art can still shoot a respectable game depsite this problem (doesn't seem to be a problem to him, nor have I ever heard him make a reference to the problem - ever). I beleiev that if we are determined enough, our mind finds ways to work around these problems, and before long, it's as if they never existed. What you might want to do, Laura, is get in touch with Bob Fancher and ask him some questions regarding this subject. Read his article on the dominant eye theory and get a semblence of what I am referring to. It's only a problem if you are consciously aware of it. As a former road player, you learn how to point these things out to your victims, therefore diverting their attention to their deficiencies and not their strengths.

My bridge hand has a slight tremor, but it is much less and does not seem a problem when my hand is firmly planted with either an open or closed bridge. In LD, learning disabled children, they frquently have mixed dominance. Many of them are clumby early on. This appears to be a temporary thing, just until they learn to compensate.

I believe that my slightly odd dominance is a strength because as I develop my skills, I will be able to shoot well with either hand. Now that you mention the bridge being the bigger issue with tremors, that may be why wnen shooting lefty, I have more of a bridge problem. This only occurs in sitations such as shooting near the rail where it is harder to have a firm bridge.

Why did you suggest contacting Fancher?

Laura