Drilling out bolt cavity

[Gorramjayne]

I have a few Lucasis and one of them I want to take down another quarter or half ounce. It's already at 17.5oz without any weight bolt in it, but this particular cue has just played better the lighter I've made it.

Looking down into the bolt cavity with a flashlight, there appears to be some metal, like a steel pin or something, at the very bottom of the cavity. It has no drive head on it so it cannot be removed with tools.

A few questions:

Is this standard practice for production cues? Do they add some 'permanent weight' with metal of some sort in the forearm?

Is there any chance it's serving any sort of structural function? Will my butt fall apart if this were to be drilled out? This butt has no decorative splices, inlays or anything, it's just a laser-etched forearm and a rubber grip on the butt, is there any risk of splitting it?

Assuming it's not going to ruin the cue, would any cuesmith in his right mind be willing to drill this out with a tungsten carbide bit or the like?

....

If I were to get adventurous and risk drilling this out myself, would I absolutely need a drill chuck on a lathe? I'm fairly confident with a very long 3/8" drill bit, I could take out about a 0.25oz of material without doing damage to the weight bolt threads (not that I have a use for them.)


I appreciate any insight on this.

 

[Kim Bye]

I guess thats where the handle and buttcap are joined together, so don`t touch that screw!
If 17.5oz isn`t light enough for you and the weight bolt is out - get another cue!

 

[seanjonsean]

Chinese cues have a piece of rod glued in this may be that ,ive removed these ,i drll them out ,make a hole then use dull bit to heat up and it should come out ,soubds easy but its tedious

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

 

[Gorramjayne]

I guess thats where the handle and buttcap are joined together, so don`t touch that screw!
If 17.5oz isn`t light enough for you and the weight bolt is out - get another cue!

Nah, this is a good 10-12" inside the cue. It is, however, near the point where the forearm meets the grip. I don't want another cue,I love the rubber grip on the Lucasi, rubber grips are way of the future since I can keep a feather light grip and get tremendous cue speed without my stroke deviating one bit. (And I say this as someone who not long ago was using a 1970s Brunswick and loved it.) With that rubber grip I'm sure you could go down to 15oz and have a perfectly controllable cue.

Chinese cues have a piece of rod glued in this may be that ,ive removed these ,i drll them out ,make a hole then use dull bit to heat up and it should come out ,soubds easy but its tedious

Yeah I have also have a cheap snooker cue that looks to have a threaded rod in it, 6mm hex bolt head on it, but it's epoxied in, I couldn't loosen it even with a vice. How do you get the rod out if it doesn't have a head once it's heated? A screw extractor?

 

[HDR10]

It's the A joint bolt..don't mess with it. I have bored the inside of butt/handle bigger to lose weight but then it needs a small plug to screw the bumper on with

 

[Dave38]

First step, post a few pictures showing as much as possible the back end of the cue. Secondly, if there is a metal rod epoxied in around 12" from the butt end, My experience is ....don't touch it. To drill into it can create enough heat to loosen not just the epoxy holding that rod, but any epoxy nearby, including the A joint. and wrap glue, etc. Pandora's box if you will. It may well be the azz end of the A joint screw and if you heat that up by drilling or other means, it will destroy the epoxy bond and you will get a buzz/rattle afterwards. It's your choice as it's your cue, but myself as a repairman for 19 plus years, I wouldn't mess with it.
Dave

 

[Gorramjayne]

Thanks for the info.

What are my options then to get more weight out? Can I have the A joint taken apart to replace the metal rod with a wood tenon? Am I looking at having to remove the uni-loc pin to take weight out of the forearm from the other end then reinstall it?

It's the A joint bolt..don't mess with it. I have bored the inside of butt/handle bigger to lose weight but then it needs a small plug to screw the bumper on with

On Lucasi cues, the weight bolt diameter is 13mm and the bumper plug is significantly larger, I'd say 3/4" so I think I could bore it out to the same diameter as the bumper plug and be good, but I'm not sure this would get the weight down quite enough.

 

[Mcues]

[


On Lucasi cues, the weight bolt diameter is 13mm and the bumper plug is significantly larger, I'd say 3/4" so I think I could bore it out to the same diameter as the bumper plug and be good, but I'm not sure this would get the weight down quite enough.[/QUOTE]

That will hardly remove any weight; as someone else stated, messing with the A joint is not recommended.

Mario

 

[GBCues]

I agree with pretty much all that has been said. In addition - while I'm not a Lucasi expert, it is common for the butt sleeve to slide on over a 3/4" tenon. If you bore that out, the butt sleeve might fall off in your hand. It can be done, but you have to be careful and have an idea what you are doing.
My 2 cents,
Gary

 

[bob_bushka]

[


On Lucasi cues, the weight bolt diameter is 13mm and the bumper plug is significantly larger, I'd say 3/4" so I think I could bore it out to the same diameter as the bumper plug and be good, but I'm not sure this would get the weight down quite enough.

That will hardly remove any weight; as someone else stated, messing with the A joint is not recommended.

Mario[/QUOTE]

You might want to try and find a lighter shaft. Weigh your shaft, call Cue and case and see if they can get you one about a half ounce lighter.

 

[Gorramjayne]

You might want to try and find a lighter shaft. Weigh your shaft, call Cue and case and see if they can get you one about a half ounce lighter.

Shaft is already 3.6 oz (11.5 mm pro taper, no collar) and I wouldn't want to go lighter even if I could because I like the forward balance.

The bumper weighs 0.4 ounces. I can either cut the bumper shorter and bore a big hole through the center of it or fabricate my own replacement 'bumper', basically just a thin ring of silicone or rubber screwed into a balsa wood plug.

I'm not even all that worried about it having no bumper at all, since it has no splices to come undone, it should hold up. One of my snooker cues is traditional, having no bumper, and it's not had a problem at all.

Still, the problem is sticking in my brain that I wish I could do more. I measured again and that metal rod that supposedly is part of the A joint is halfway down into the grip, only 8-9" from the butt.. There's no reason for that much metal that far back, if anything I'd rather they had built that joint backwards, extending out of the grip into the forearm for more forward weight

 

[Dave38]

Shaft is already 3.6 oz (11.5 mm pro taper, no collar) and I wouldn't want to go lighter even if I could because I like the forward balance.

The bumper weighs 0.4 ounces. I can either cut the bumper shorter and bore a big hole through the center of it or fabricate my own replacement 'bumper', basically just a thin ring of silicone or rubber screwed into a balsa wood plug.

I'm not even all that worried about it having no bumper at all, since it has no splices to come undone, it should hold up. One of my snooker cues is traditional, having no bumper, and it's not had a problem at all.

Still, the problem is sticking in my brain that I wish I could do more. I measured again and that metal rod that supposedly is part of the A joint is halfway down into the grip, only 8-9" from the butt.. There's no reason for that much metal that far back, if anything I'd rather they had built that joint backwards, extending out of the grip into the forearm for more forward weight

You are chasing a dream buddy, so before destroying this cue that you like, why not have a custom cue built in the weight you want? No One's game gets better by reducing a cue by a 1/2 ounce or less, especially when it's already at 17.5 oz now, but if you want lower, get a cue made from the start to be a lower weight and you'll still have the original 17.5 one if the new one doesn't 'fit' right
Anything you do to the one you have now risks compromising the structural strength on the cue, for what? a 1/2 ounce difference that you think will help your game? What if it hits like crap after? There will be no way to re-add and get it to hit the same as it was before. You can do what you please, as it's your cue, but sometimes we get caught up in all of the what could be's and end up making bad decisions. If you like what you have now, why risk ruining what you have?
Dave

 

[Kim Bye]

Shaft is already 3.6 oz (11.5 mm pro taper, no collar) and I wouldn't want to go lighter even if I could because I like the forward balance.

The bumper weighs 0.4 ounces. I can either cut the bumper shorter and bore a big hole through the center of it or fabricate my own replacement 'bumper', basically just a thin ring of silicone or rubber screwed into a balsa wood plug.

I'm not even all that worried about it having no bumper at all, since it has no splices to come undone, it should hold up. One of my snooker cues is traditional, having no bumper, and it's not had a problem at all.

Still, the problem is sticking in my brain that I wish I could do more. I measured again and that metal rod that supposedly is part of the A joint is halfway down into the grip, only 8-9" from the butt.. There's no reason for that much metal that far back, if anything I'd rather they had built that joint backwards, extending out of the grip into the forearm for more forward weight

I was pretty quick to point out that this is stupid and that you most likely will ruin your cue.
I get people all the time who thinks their game will transform if they just find that magical tip or get a 15oz cue, a 34" shaft etc.
It ain't gonna happen! 17.5oz is allready lighter than the avereage cue by atleast an ounce.
Your game is not going to change if you remove a third of an ounce. This is all in your head.
You have had several people advice you not to mess up your cue in search of that non-exsistent holy grail. I hope you listen, but somehow I doubt you will...

 

[a1712]

I was pretty quick to point out that this is stupid and that you most likely will ruin your cue.
I get people all the time who thinks their game will transform if they just find that magical tip or get a 15oz cue, a 34" shaft etc.
It ain't gonna happen! 17.5oz is allready lighter than the avereage cue by atleast an ounce.
Your game is not going to change if you remove a third of an ounce. This is all in your head.
You have had several people advice you not to mess up your cue in search of that non-exsistent holy grail. I hope you listen, but somehow I doubt you will...

You're an intelligent man Mr.Bye. Brian.

 

[Gorramjayne]

I was pretty quick to point out that this is stupid and that you most likely will ruin your cue.
I get people all the time who thinks their game will transform if they just find that magical tip or get a 15oz cue, a 34" shaft etc.
It ain't gonna happen! 17.5oz is allready lighter than the avereage cue by atleast an ounce.
Your game is not going to change if you remove a third of an ounce. This is all in your head.
You have had several people advice you not to mess up your cue in search of that non-exsistent holy grail. I hope you listen, but somehow I doubt you will...

If you're a traditional pool player, you're not going to notice half an ounce, sure. But if you have a snooker background and have carried over that compact quick stroke, it can make a helluva difference. Most snooker pros play between 17-18 ounces and some go as low as 15oz.I have snooker cues at 17, and 19 oz... my favorite is the 17oz. Mind you also that most pool players are playing around 13mm tips and I'm playing an 11.5mm pro taper. So given my stroke and tip diameter, my requirements in a cue are not going to be mainstream.

My game already jumped up a notch when I quit playing with traditional pool cues and switched to lighter weight and rubber grips. The rubber grips let me get my cue speed where it needs to be to move the heavier pool balls with the cue weight I'm comfortable with, while still retaining my compact stroke and delicate grip on the cue. I gained significant fine CB control at a distance, threading the CB through gaps to get on very difficult short side positions where before I would have had to play safe and wage a tactical battle.

Like I said, the bumper is heavy and if I take it out the cue goes down to 16.8 ounces and I actually do hit better. However, I'd rather leave the bumper to protect the cue so I'd like to shed weight elsewhere. So I really don't care to discuss the merits of taking the cue down further based on anybody's traditional notions, what I'm interested in is what a creative cuesmith can think to do that will not structurally compromise the cue.

So question: Has anybody ever heated the epoxy on the A joint and taken the handle/forearm apart on a production cue and successfully put it back together? I have a nearly identical cue to this that's serving as my break cue so I'm not going to be too torn up if I can't put humpty dumpty back together again perfectly and I wouldn't even miss the money if I have to just buy the same cue again, I can even just buy the exact same cue for $340 and just sell the LD shaft that it comes with to offset the cost.

 

[Michael Webb]

If you're a traditional pool player, you're not going to notice half an ounce, sure. But if you have a snooker background and have carried over that compact quick stroke, it can make a helluva difference. Most snooker pros play between 17-18 ounces and some go as low as 15oz.I have snooker cues at 17, and 19 oz... my favorite is the 17oz. Mind you also that most pool players are playing around 13mm tips and I'm playing an 11.5mm pro taper. So given my stroke and tip diameter, my requirements in a cue are not going to be mainstream.

My game already jumped up a notch when I quit playing with traditional pool cues and switched to lighter weight and rubber grips. The rubber grips let me get my cue speed where it needs to be to move the heavier pool balls with the cue weight I'm comfortable with, while still retaining my compact stroke and delicate grip on the cue. I gained significant fine CB control at a distance, threading the CB through gaps to get on very difficult short side positions where before I would have had to play safe and wage a tactical battle.

Like I said, the bumper is heavy and if I take it out the cue goes down to 16.8 ounces and I actually do hit better. However, I'd rather leave the bumper to protect the cue so I'd like to shed weight elsewhere. So I really don't care to discuss the merits of taking the cue down further based on anybody's traditional notions, what I'm interested in is what a creative cuesmith can think to do that will not structurally compromise the cue.

So question: Has anybody ever heated the epoxy on the A joint and taken the handle/forearm apart on a production cue and successfully put it back together? I have a nearly identical cue to this that's serving as my break cue so I'm not going to be too torn up if I can't put humpty dumpty back together again perfectly and I wouldn't even miss the money if I have to just buy the same cue again, I can even just buy the exact same cue for $340 and just sell the LD shaft that it comes with to offset the cost.

Good morning
Lucasi.....stainless joints?
After removing the weight bolt. My next step would have been addressing the stainless joint.
Even if you still wanted stainless you could save weight from changing the standard 5/8" threaded joint and switching to a 3/4x16 stainless collar. Or put a phenolic joint. You could mess with the -A- joint but this is a last resort and at what point have you gone to far in what you are trying to achieve?

 

[Kim Bye]

If you're a traditional pool player, you're not going to notice half an ounce, sure. But if you have a snooker background and have carried over that compact quick stroke, it can make a helluva difference. Most snooker pros play between 17-18 ounces and some go as low as 15oz.I have snooker cues at 17, and 19 oz... my favorite is the 17oz. Mind you also that most pool players are playing around 13mm tips and I'm playing an 11.5mm pro taper. So given my stroke and tip diameter, my requirements in a cue are not going to be mainstream.

My game already jumped up a notch when I quit playing with traditional pool cues and switched to lighter weight and rubber grips. The rubber grips let me get my cue speed where it needs to be to move the heavier pool balls with the cue weight I'm comfortable with, while still retaining my compact stroke and delicate grip on the cue. I gained significant fine CB control at a distance, threading the CB through gaps to get on very difficult short side positions where before I would have had to play safe and wage a tactical battle.

Like I said, the bumper is heavy and if I take it out the cue goes down to 16.8 ounces and I actually do hit better. However, I'd rather leave the bumper to protect the cue so I'd like to shed weight elsewhere. So I really don't care to discuss the merits of taking the cue down further based on anybody's traditional notions, what I'm interested in is what a creative cuesmith can think to do that will not structurally compromise the cue.

So question: Has anybody ever heated the epoxy on the A joint and taken the handle/forearm apart on a production cue and successfully put it back together? I have a nearly identical cue to this that's serving as my break cue so I'm not going to be too torn up if I can't put humpty dumpty back together again perfectly and I wouldn't even miss the money if I have to just buy the same cue again, I can even just buy the exact same cue for $340 and just sell the LD shaft that it comes with to offset the cost.

I'm sorry for being so blunt, but most of what you are saying is BS. A rubber grip, elephant, stingray, komodo dragon wrap etc want get you more power or speed, that comes from your arm. The cue is just a stick!
I would charge about what you payed for the cue to redo the A joint.
Have Schmelke make you a 17oz cue for $300...

 

[aphelps1]

Some people are only happy backing up a car until they hear glass break. Sadly, the most constructive thing you can do is watch.

I have a sneaky pete that I converted from an old one piece that is balanced exacly where I like it, weights 15.8 oz. with a 12.4 mm tip.

Draws a ball like a dream. No, it's not for sale.

No, I don't use it anymore.

 

[Gorramjayne]

I'm sorry for being so blunt, but most of what you are saying is BS. A rubber grip, elephant, stingray, komodo dragon wrap etc want get you more power or speed, that comes from your arm. The cue is just a stick!
I would charge about what you payed for the cue to redo the A joint.
Have Schmelke make you a 17oz cue for $300...

A textured rubber grip lets you keep your hand as open as possible with little more than your fingertips on the cue allowing your wrist to hinge forward a little more. When you can get the cue as far away from your palm as possible, you increase the mechanical advantage of your elbow and wrist, generating more cue speed with a compact stroke. I used to play almost exclusively with wrapless cues and switching to a rubber grip I found I could open my grip up very wide without having the cue slip one bit even on power shots. Look an Niels Feiijen, he grips his cue so loosely you could fit another cue in the gap in his hand, which is why he is so accurate when he juices a ball, he snaps through cleanly and doesn't have to take a big windup so very little can go wrong. Compare that to goofy Earl with his taped up cue, arm weights, golf glove... his new thing is a weight belt around his waist to stop him from moving because for whatever reason he refuses to stop slumping his shoulders and head.

To achieve accurate power shots, you either open up your grip to make your elbow/wrist hinge most efficiently (Feijen), bridge longer with a bigger backswing (SVB, Reyes),or you grip more firmly adding the cue's effective mass (Hohmann, O'Sullivan).

As I don't make my money from pool, I don't hit balls 4-8 hours every day, so I adopted the technique that is most dependable when coming to the table cold. Keeping my grip open so my wrist always hinges on the same line as my elbow forces a good elbow alignment and stance so I'll notice right away if something is wrong. The rubber grip itself doesn't give me more power, it lets me keep grip lighter I can hinge my elbow and wrist effectively, so no matter the shot speed I don't need to warm my arm up for an hour to make sure I don't swing wild and pull a shot off-line.

 

[KJ Cues]

Yup, this thread here is the prime reason that I don't take custom orders.
I'm retired, who needs the aggravation ? Lol
Some people just don't get it.

If the rubber-grip is what trips your trigger, look at a cue-condom. They're like $5.
Everything you've mentioned so far will dramatically alter your cue.
And not in a good way. Messin with A-jnt ? Are you kiddin me ? Start over.