Easier Format 9ball? Winner Breaks/Alternate Breaks/Loser Breaks

[Perk]

It was mentioned by in the WPBA post that Alternate Breaks makes it easier for the underdogs to pull upsets. I would like a poll on this. Please select which format you believe will give a lesser player the best chance at an upset.

I play in some alternate 9ball format tourneys and I hear everyone say that anyone can win, and that its easier to beat a champion. The more I play in these tourneys, the more I think that is wrong. In an alternate format, I have yet to pull a major upset. It seems that you need EVERYTHING to go right. One bad snap, or hook, and you can be down 3-0. I have a strong player that comes by and we play races very frequently. I can win some races against him frequently in a winner break format, but we have played some alternate break formats, and I cannot beat him this way.

Seems to me that you can get rolling with a winner break format, and you have a chance to swing the tide against someone. What are your thoughts?

 

[Frank_Glenn]

It was mentioned by in the WPBA post that Alternate Breaks makes it easier for the underdogs to pull upsets. I would like a poll on this. Please select which format you believe will give a lesser player the best chance at an upset.
<<snip>>
Seems to me that you can get rolling with a winner break format, and you have a chance to swing the tide against someone. What are your thoughts?

Alternate breaks assures you a shot at least every other game. This favors the underdog, who is unlikely to put a sixpack on the pro, IMO. YMMV

 

[bruin70]

i think upsets happen in 9ball because pool in general is a game where there is always a possibility of a player never getting a chance at the table. so,,, there is always a possibilty that a lesser player can get hot and keep the better player in his seat....especially in a short race.

in alternate breaks, BOTH players get equal chances at the table. this negates the luck/hot factor for the lesser player.

the break and run happens about 30% of the time. so while there's a possiblity of the better player stringing racks, most of the game is played in between those runs. even if breaking and running happened a lot,,,,,in alternate breaks, the better runner still wins all his breaks and the lesser still cannot run on his turn, and loses his breaks anyway, and the better player wins.

the games might be closer, but the better player should come out ahead more often.

 

[sarahrousey]

I agree that the alternate break format allows players to come back. One, because you assured a shot every other game. Whether you can capitalize or not is the question. Two, the player who pulls way ahead also knows that they can be that far ahead and get a shot every other game so they know if they lose a game they will always get another shot. That leads to letting up on the competition.

I personally like winner break format. I think people like to see racks being put together. But with the alternate break format both players can be showcased rather than one running over the other.

 

[railbird25]

i think if you want to use an alternate break or loser break type of system then you should just simply make it trailer breaks..i've seen this used a few times and it worked quite well...and still assures you of plenty of shots

 

[bruin70]

sara,,,here's a hypothetical

sara,,,,let's say you're an A player playing a C playing, in a series of race to 5 or 7 sets..........

if you wanted to insure yourself of not getting upset, would you play alternating breaks or winner breaks? i would play alternating, because that eliminates the possibility of the C getting hot or lucky for more than only one game. because it can only be by luck or getting hot that could allow a C to beat the A.

long ago i played an semi pro level player(i am and always was a C). i ran two racks,,,sank the 9 on the break,,,played one luck game,,,and eventually won 5-3. so he sat for 4 games. no way this happens in alternating breaks. if anything, alternating breaks stops any momentum i had.

 

[Bobby]

It depends on the skill level of the players involved.
If a B player is playing an A+ or open class player
then his best chance for an upset would be alternate
breaks IMHO. This way the better player can't string
3 or 4 or more racks together.
But if say a D or D+ player is playing a B player
then I would think that the winner breaks format is
better for the weaker player because the B player
usually won't put many racks together anyway but the
weaker D player could get lucky and make a 9 on the
snap or an early combo on the 9. This has been my
experience anyway.



Bobby

 

[sarahrousey]

I agree with Bobby. It depends on the level of the players. Playing anyone luck is brought into the picture. I like the winner break format, but maybe that is because it is what is used most often. Alternate break definitely allows someone to comeback more often than winner break...unless racks are strung together. Bruin, I agree that luck is a huge factor. It can happen in alternate break as well. Say when it is your turn you break and scratch or break and don't make anything and leave a combo? You never know what is going to happen in a match. Both formats have their pros and cons.

 

[bruin70]

,,,,,, Bruin, I agree that luck is a huge factor. It can happen in alternate break as well. Say when it is your turn you break and scratch or break and don't make anything and leave a combo?

my thinking here is that in alt.breaks, two things must happen. 1...the lesser player gets hot/lucky in one game and 2...the better player must get unlucky in his. whereas in winner's only one thing has to happen.

so luck is minimized in altbreaks, and if luck is minimized, skill favors the better player. alternate serve is why the best tennis players stay on top, imo. it would take a ferocious effort by an underdog to beat a topdog.

 

[Perk]

I am still believing that I have a better chance of coming back against a better player if its winner breaks. I guess it depends on the levels, but too much can go wrong in an alternate break format, and that tends to help out the better player. Granted, it could happen where I sit in my seat for all 5/7 games and lose 7-0, but I play at a level that I run my share of racks as well, and can play smart when I get to the table. But to beat a better player, you need to get on a roll, and an alternate break format wont allow that.

Sarah mentioned the feelings that both players get in an alternate break format. If you get down by 3 or 4 games, it is damn near impossible to come back and win. In winner breaks, you could get a couple games in row without giving the table back to the better player. Its easier to make a mistake cost them in this format. IMO

 

[bruin70]

,,,,,

Sarah mentioned the feelings that both players get in an alternate break format. If you get down by 3 or 4 games, it is damn near impossible to come back and win. ,,,,,IMO

which is why in alt breaks, EVERY game is important. there is no sluffing off and getting too far behind. thus altbreaks benefits the stronger willed, better player.

 

[satman]

I agree it depends on the skill level of the players. I'm a farely strong shortstop and i've beaten top caliber players in winner and loser break tournaments. But since i'm not as likely to put 5-6 racks together like I used to, my odds are better in a loser break format. It kills the champion to lose their lead because of no shot after the break. It also makes it harder to come back if they are getting out. When a b and c player are playing I believe alternate or loser break benefits the b player. Sam

 

[bruin70]

I agree it depends on the skill level of the players. I'm a farely strong shortstop and i've beaten top caliber players in winner and loser break tournaments. But since i'm not as likely to put 5-6 racks together like I used to, my odds are better in a loser break format. It kills the champion to lose their lead because of no shot after the break. It also makes it harder to come back if they are getting out. When a b and c player are playing I believe alternate or loser break benefits the b player. Sam

by "loser breaks" we mean the loser of a game gets to break in the next game,,,yes?

well, all that means is that the loser(most of the time it will be the lesser player) will always be breaking AFTER the better player has won a game.

which means that chances are the loser will always be behind, and the better player will gradually extend his lead when the lesser player fails to hold his break.