Economics of Pool -- Educate Me Pls

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SlumpMaster

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Could someone please explain to me how the Big Apple Classic, held in a modest-sized room, untelevised (I assume) has total prize money at $20k+, and a tournament like the Challenge of Champions, held in a major casino, televised (I assume) has prize money at only $50k?

I have a little background in television, and I know you only need a 1 share to be a hit on cable. I can't find the ratings, but pool probably does some small fraction of one share. I also assume that pool's demographics are somewhat broad, lessening its value a bit more. What's the nature of the deal with ESPN? There has to be some money there, even just a little. Then there's the casino which should be paying a handsome dollar for this kind of exposure.

I'm sure there's a logical explanation for this. Someone please educate me because this just seems peculiar.
 
SlumpMaster said:
Could someone please explain to me how the Big Apple Classic, held in a modest-sized room, untelevised (I assume) has total prize money at $20k+, and a tournament like the Challenge of Champions, held in a major casino, televised (I assume) has prize money at only $50k?

I have a little background in television, and I know you only need a 1 share to be a hit on cable. I can't find the ratings, but pool probably does some small fraction of one share. I also assume that pool's demographics are somewhat broad, lessening its value a bit more. What's the nature of the deal with ESPN? There has to be some money there, even just a little. Then there's the casino which should be paying a handsome dollar for this kind of exposure.

I'm sure there's a logical explanation for this. Someone please educate me because this just seems peculiar.
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Seems peculiar to me too, because I think the pool shows used to get a 1 share regularly. And another poster said that the WPBA pays for all its tv production, which should mean they get a better deal? I think their purses have increased lately, which is good to see. Anybody know what they get from their tv deal?

unknownpro
 
because the prize money is winner take all. ie,,,the winner at mohican sun got 50k, and the winner at the big apple got 10k.

also, i believe, pool has to beg for time on espn. i heard, for instance, that espn owns the WHOLE pool package after an event's FIRST televised showing. pool is in no position to ask for anything.
 
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It just comes down to supply and demand. And demand is not high enough for the kind of content being produced.

Poker created a breakthrough with improved production and that has done a lot to change the entire economics of that game.

I have produced snooker for TV and had to pay to have it produced and broadcast.

Exposure brings popularity and popularity brings exposure. It's a tough nut to crack through that threshold. Kevin Trudeau, having both media and marketing saavy has a better chance then anyone else who's tried in the last 20 years I think.
 
Colin Colenso said:
It just comes down to supply and demand. And demand is not high enough for the kind of content being produced.

Poker created a breakthrough with improved production and that has done a lot to change the entire economics of that game.

I have produced snooker for TV and had to pay to have it produced and broadcast.

Exposure brings popularity and popularity brings exposure. It's a tough nut to crack through that threshold. Kevin Trudeau, having both media and marketing saavy has a better chance then anyone else who's tried in the last 20 years I think.
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I agree. Even a no money deal on ESPN is better than a small money deal for a network with less reach. But when/if pool does break through that threshold and is in a place to bargain, the pool player may never know it happened -- mainly because the pool player has no representation. Who knows? ESPN might've struck a new deal with the organizations involved for millions and it would be like the sound of a tree falling in the forest. At some point there need to be some transparency with all this money changing hands. In the end, the players have to be the ones to demand it.
 
Todays exposure helped: Siegel and Jones

And any T.V. exposure helps as today's Cold Pizza segment on ESPN probably did. Although time was short both Loree and Mike got in some good comments about the upcoming battle of the sexes and the upcoming IPT. They mentioned the money involved, the timing in relation to the poker craze and that it might just be pools time to breakthrough on t.v. with the help of Kevin Trudeau. They mentioned it was starting out with 150 players and increasing 50 a year and that milliions of dollars would be involved. The host asked why 8 ball and Loree said because the public understands that game and playing 9 ball takes explaining and they don't want to have to do that plus 8 ball brings more different shots into the match. I sure wish it luck.
 
SlumpMaster said:
Could someone please explain to me how the Big Apple Classic, held in a modest-sized room, untelevised (I assume) has total prize money at $20k+, and a tournament like the Challenge of Champions, held in a major casino, televised (I assume) has prize money at only $50k?
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The simplest explanation is that the "added" portion of both prize funds shows a different picture. $15,000 was added to the Big Apple, then about $6,000 of it was taken back by the owner. $50,000 was added to the Challenge of Champions, and none was taken back.

So right away, your ratio of about 2-1 has jumped to almost 6-1.

You can't count the player entry fees because TCOC didn't have one, and there were only 8 or 16 players to begin with (I forget).

You might argue that even 6-1 wouldn't be an acceptable ratio, considering the difference in these productions (national TV vs. local tourney). And you'd be right, of course.

- Steve
 
Steve Lipsky said:
The simplest explanation is that the "added" portion of both prize funds shows a different picture. $15,000 was added to the Big Apple, then about $6,000 of it was taken back by the owner. $50,000 was added to the Challenge of Champions, and none was taken back.
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$6000 was taken back??? Why??

Barbara
 
Green fees?

The Mohegan Sun gets national TV exposure and the walk-in traffic that COC brings in, and only has to put up $50k. Not a bad deal, especially if Chao plays craps ;) :).
 
SlumpMaster said:
I agree. Even a no money deal on ESPN is better than a small money deal for a network with less reach. But when/if pool does break through that threshold and is in a place to bargain, the pool player may never know it happened -- mainly because the pool player has no representation. Who knows? ESPN might've struck a new deal with the organizations involved for millions and it would be like the sound of a tree falling in the forest. At some point there need to be some transparency with all this money changing hands. In the end, the players have to be the ones to demand it.
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Usually it's the big names of the sport that provide all the pulling power, through the fact that theyr are the cornerstone of PR.

Organizations can try to freeze them out of the deal but it is a dangerous business strategy. Best to keep them happy, else the top 5 players will run off with ENtrepreneur no.2 and use their established marketability to build a new tour.

One of the big problems with snooker was that decisions were voted on through a player association, and the poor strugglers were the mass and voted for their short term interest. This almost split the organization up.

To avoid total collapse, the players have now handed over more powers to professional management.
 
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