Efren Reyes

TheConArtist

TheConArtist

Daddy's A Butcher
Silver Member
Alot of people have the opportunity to see him play along with all the pros, and i have a recording of him and i noticed that his stroke he sort twists the cue in his hands and during his last stroke too you could see him twist it, and i have a few recordings of other Filipinos doing the same thing, not Francisco though never noticed him twisting the cue. For example Jose, Sambo if thats how you spell his name, all do this. And i was wondering does Efren still do this along with these other pros?
 
He might be applying what is called "Tuck and Roll"english.Buddy Hall uses it and apparently Earl Strickland and others do as well.

Basically they line up to cut a shot in with and center ball(high,mid or low)hit and then twist the english on(during the forward stroke) by coming across the cue ball to apply spin rather than the standard straight through style.

One can either twist the wrist inward or outward depending on whether you want to use right or left hand english.To see how this is done get a copy of Buddy Halls instuctional "The Clock System" or Bert Kinisters, "The Deflection Tape."

Apparently with this style of english there is less deflection(says Buddy Hall,Bert) and you don't have to aim thick or thin on the object ball to compensate as the "tuck and Roll' takes care of all of that for you, IF executed properly.
RJ
 
TheConArtist said:
Alot of people have the opportunity to see him play along with all the pros, and i have a recording of him and i noticed that his stroke he sort twists the cue in his hands and during his last stroke too you could see him twist it, and i have a few recordings of other Filipinos doing the same thing, not Francisco though never noticed him twisting the cue. For example Jose, Sambo if thats how you spell his name, all do this. And i was wondering does Efren still do this along with these other pros?
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I believe what you are describing is him loosening his fingers, turning his cue around in his grip hand to get a grip that feels right, and then on his final stroke, he releases the cue from the "v" in his hand. He does not twist his stroke, only the cue, as if he is making an adjustment. I know exactly what you mean, Santos and I used to practice together and I picked up that habit from watching him do it lol.
 
cuetechasaurus said:
I believe what you are describing is him loosening his fingers, turning his cue around in his grip hand to get a grip that feels right, and then on his final stroke, he releases the cue from the "v" in his hand. He does not twist his stroke, only the cue, as if he is making an adjustment. I know exactly what you mean, Santos and I used to practice together and I picked up that habit from watching him do it lol.
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Sorry about that but yes you are correct i meant his cue, but i just noticed the filipinos do this i never noticed anyone else that twists the cue, . I know this was a uhgly thread but i just have to know these things LOL. Thanks guys for the info......
 
I could say with confidence that most all of the Filippino players that live and play here in Japan use that kind of a stroke. I use it depending on the shot, but generally I've found it difficult to control just how much "right/left" I put on the stroke. As far as reducing deflection, here's my take. When you line up straight on a stroke, and during the final executing stroke, you stroke off to the left, you're stroke line changes to the left of the actual aim, but because of deflection, the CB takes the path of the original 'straight' position that you started with in the first place. So there's definately deflection happening, but with this stroke, deflection can be taken out of the calculation/though process because you're not compensating for deflection with your aimand stance, but actually doing it with the stroke. Sounds like some kind of a miracle cure for the "deflection heebi jeebiz" but like I said, it's not for everybody, and I've found that for me, I can't always be sure as to just how much action I'm putting on the ball.
dave
 
i was messing around with it a bit downstairs after posting this, and i found this to be true with what you said Tokyo Dave. Personally i like it but like you said again its not for everyone LOL.....
 
Engert rotates his cue clockwise in his warmup strokes. His hand starts angled out, then brought into proper line. Don't know if he does in his actual stroke, such are the deficiencies of camera coverage.

Noticed it in his first match at the 2005 World Masters.
 
This is how I was taught to play. My instructor cued every shot with center ball, then strokes english on the actual shot. He said this was developed playing and gambling in bars, so whomever you were playing couldn't tell you were spinning the cueball.

I've been doing it for about 15 years or so, and it's become natural. It's nice to just line up every shot center ball then put whatever spin you want on the shot. WARNING: it does take ALOT of getting used to, and I know I make subconscious adjustments for some shots. One thing that made it easier lately is I'm now playing with a radial laminated shaft, and I need less adjustment for deflection than I did with my other cues.

Gerry
 
I've occasionally use Tuck and Roll.I find it really easy "tucking" inward to apply outside running english.Applying inside english however by"rolling" outward is another story as for me it's hit and miss.

When I do it right ,however, the inside english takes quite nicely.As mentioned, this style of english applications does take practice.For a much easier approach, I recommend back hand english.
RJ
 
Gerry said:
He said this was developed playing and gambling in bars, so whomever you were playing couldn't tell you were spinning the cueball.
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LOL........i wish i had a nickel for everytime i heard that myth.

VAP
 
The reason the filipinos, and many others, address the ball at a different location than their final stroke is so that they can see the exact spot on the cue ball they are going to strike without the cue being in the way.
 
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