Efren's Foul (noone notices it)

TheConArtist

TheConArtist

Daddy's A Butcher
Silver Member
otaye guys i seen this myself and i just noticed it after viewing my tape a couple times i always notice something different as i watch them over and over again. The time and place it went down, the 2002 Challenge of Champions that just aired a few days ago on ESPN Classics. Efren vs. Mika in the finals, it was in the first set Efren pots the four ball in the side and comes around three rails to try and get shape on five but doesn't hit it hard enough now there is room to pocket the fiveball but he must put some extreme left spin and throw it in but he does the same thing Earl did on The Skins program his cue stick pushes the eightball to the rail and no one even notices it, not Steve, Mika, Mitch or Allen as all balls are foul in this Tournament it was amazing i seen it and no one else maybe they were all amazed on the shot he just did i don't even think Efren notices he fouled the eightball. I would post the table layout and how close the cueball was to the eightball but the wei table site ain't working for me at the moment maybe somoeone who has this Championship recorded could post it up but i swear he fouls the ball, the eight moves a ball i would say.
 
Amazing

after reading your post..i went to replay.. had the match on my dvr your right..he move the ball with his stick..i can't believe no one saw it..heck i watched it when it aired and i didn't notice it....seems he had to notice that...only difference between that and Earl's deal ,nobody noticed..and Efrin was cool as a cat about it..50,000 at stake would be hard to call a foul on one's self for sure...
 
I have an ACCu-STAT tape of Efren vs. Varner at the DCC playing one pocket (not exactly sure which year it is) and Efren soft kicks from the breaking end of the table at the 6 ball that is along the right long rail at the other end of the table and he hits it, but doesnt even come close to getting a rail. What amazed me the most was that Varner, Incardona nor Grady realized this. I know when I shoot shots like this, I am definitely aware of whether or not I get a rail. Especially when we are refereeing our own matches. So, Earl isnt the only one to try and "let one slide".

Southpaw
 
MFelsen said:
Perhaps he even did not notice it by himself ?!
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Perhaps people want to blast Strickland and sympathize with Reyes, after committing the same foul?
 
@Gregg

Your right ! sympathizing with Efren is easy :rolleyes:

Pro`s should know, what they are doing and realize an foul.
 
yeah it was crazy i spotted it i was like did he just move that ball and no one seen it. Usually steve would of watch it better and Allen would of said something like he has to watch he doesn't hit the eight with his cue but nope LOL. I think and said Efren probably didn't even notice himself fouling the ball if he did you couldn't tell i tried to watch Mika's face expression but he didn't show any just the Wow he made that shot so he didn't see it either, as Charlie seen Earl touch the ball. Could someone post up the table layout for the viewers who didn't it the match or can't remember the layout Thanks. Cole.
 
ultimately it is not his responsibility to call a foul

When it comes to tournaments of this nature or money matches it is ultimately the responsibility of the opposing player to have the shot watched. I.E. If there is a ref to the match it is the ref's call. If no ref, than it is the responsibility of the opposing player to find a ref or a neutral person to watch the hit. If a ref is there than the opposing playing needs to express interest to the ref to pay close attention to the hit.

Yes, we all know that it is a question as to ethics, but it is also the responsibility of the opposing player to actually pay attention to the match. The ethical side of this says that Effren should have called the foul on himself. However, the ethical side of the match says that a player that calls a foul on himself could be dumping a match. The ethical side of a tournament says that a NEUTRAL party is best to watch over the match to give an unbiased decision as to all shots or potential rule infractions.

If any of you posters have ever played in a major tournament you will understand that most organizations require you to not actually call a foul on oneself unless the opposing players questions you directly as to your potential foul. Than you can actual state ethically or un-ethically whatever you wish at the time good or bad. Ultimately, the THIRD nuetral party should only be making the call thus leaving all questions of ethics to the side.
 
Part of the problem too ...

is differences between the way fouls are judged and called in tournaments as opposed to money matches. Money matches history is that the opposing player has to call a foul, while tournaments started relying more on the player at the table, along with opposing player, to call fouls.

Now, you can't hardly call a foul without a referee being there, even blatant ones almost. It has changed, I think because of a shifting
attitude in the last 50 years from,

Let the buyer beware, to
Let the seller be responsible, evolving to

Let the seller be responsible mediated by legal rep (having a referee there)..... lol (thank God, my brother is a lawyer).
 
LMAO i noticed one more thing at the end of the match when Efren wins the Challenge of Champions when is walking over to his buddies and Francisco to give high fives the camera views the crowd and you can see this guy collecting his winnings from his buddies LOL they musted of made a bet on who would win the match cause they are forking up there money to this guy .........
 
Maybe it was cueball only fouls. I watched a match the other day and Efren specifically asked the referee if it was cue ball only or all ball fouls. The referee said cue ball only.
 
The Challenge of Champions i thought were Foul on all Balls, let me review it. Otaye at the begginning when Mitch is reviewing the rules and format Foul on All Balls is one of them.
 
Hal said:
Maybe it was cueball only fouls. I watched a match the other day and Efren specifically asked the referee if it was cue ball only or all ball fouls. The referee said cue ball only.
Click to expand...

I just watched that match and it was definitely all ball fouls. They made a point to say it several times during the match. Also, later Efren is shooting over the 9-ball and he's very careful of his shirtsleeve and the commentators make the point again that it is all ball fouls and it would be a foul if his shirt touches the 9.

The shot in question was definitely a foul. I have no idea if Efren knew it or not. I couldn't tell by his body language or expression.

RC
 
sixpack said:
I just watched that match and it was definitely all ball fouls. They made a point to say it several times during the match. Also, later Efren is shooting over the 9-ball and he's very careful of his shirtsleeve and the commentators make the point again that it is all ball fouls and it would be a foul if his shirt touches the 9.

The shot in question was definitely a foul. I have no idea if Efren knew it or not. I couldn't tell by his body language or expression.

RC
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he didn't know he fouled the ball and like i said you couldn't tell if he did know, You happen to see the guy in the crowd collecting his money LOL.
 
I have almost all the World Pool Championship matches from 1999-2005.
In one particuliar match Efren is hooked and makes a kick, however, doesn't get a rail.

He is playing a British(can't remember who) snooker player who doesn't pick up on it and susbsequently doesn't call a foul.In snooker , hitting a rail is not nessesary when playing a hook or getting out of one, so maybe that's why.

The two announcers (Not exactly sure who)go on to make a big deal about it, suggesting that Efren knew his(Obvious) gaff and wasn't showing much class by not calling a foul on himself. The one announcer (a player himself, Kim Davenport I think???) basically stated that he would have definitley called that foul on himself in that situation.

Efren broke no rules here and it's definitley up to the British snooker players to learn the rules while playing pool. He did however, miss an opportunity to enhance his already classy character, by graciously calling a foul on himself.
RJ
 
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If it's foul on all balls, does it mean no if's or but's, Or it's not a foul if you touch/move a ball at rest AFTER you hit the cue ball?

I hope someone who has a lot of knowledge on pool rules can answer my question.
 
karambolista said:
If it's foul on all balls, does it mean no if's or but's, Or it's not a foul if you touch/move a ball at rest AFTER you hit the cue ball?

I hope someone who has a lot of knowledge on pool rules can answer my question.
Click to expand...

Contacting any ball besides the cue ball is a foul, before, during or after the shot.....

You or your cue or clothing touch A ball and it is a foul.....

Period.

That should be a universal rule.
 
i just searched and found my tape of this match in the 2002 Challenge Of The Champions too. wanted to see for myself. and i did. yep, Efren definitely committed a foul there. and like everyone else says its hard to believe that Efren, Mika, Steve Tipton, Mitch Laurance, or Allen Hopkins neither one saw it, or at least didnt say anything about it.

but, since Mika won the first set anyway, 5-3, it didnt really play much into the final outcome of the $50,000. but if it would have, wowsa, could you imagine how Mika would have felt once he realized it? how would he have felt about himself for not seeing it happen? how would he have felt about Efren for not calling it on himself? how would he have felt about the referee, Steve Tipton, for not catching it?

who knows???

DCP
 
Gregg said:
Perhaps people want to blast Strickland and sympathize with Reyes, after committing the same foul?
Click to expand...

Tap Tap Tap

P.S. I am a huge fan of Strickland AND Reyes
 
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