Efren's Hill-Hill Nine Ball Against Appleton

punter

punter

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
OK, watch the shot, particularly Efren's pre-shot movements. He points the cuestick to a spot on the endrail near the corner pocket opposite from him. Then he, pretty clearly IMO, looks down to the rail nearest him, and points to (or picks out) a spot inside the first diamond (points to it with his left hand).

Given these preshot actions, what shot do you think the magician had in mind here? To me, it's not too farfetched that Efren played this shot. What do you think?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSe6troPrzg&feature=youtu.be
 
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I think he's looking at the bank on the 4 ball. He doesn't want to hit the 4 so thin that it goes toward that first corner pocket, because then he loses his cueball flying around the table. I think he's trying to make a thicker hit on the 4 to send the cueball up table and leave distance between the cueball and the 4 and maybe put the cueball up behind the 6, 7, and 8, and to give himself a chance to make the 4 cross corner if he hits it just right. I don't know how you could ever "play" the shot he ends up making on the 9.
 
punter said:
OK, watch the shot, particularly Efren's pre-shot movements. He points the cuestick to a spot on the endrail near the corner pocket opposite from him. Then he, pretty clearly IMO, looks down to the rail nearest him, and points to (or picks out) a spot inside the first diamond (points to it with his left hand).

Given these preshot actions, what shot do you think the magician had in mind here? To me, it's not too farfetched that Efren played this shot. What do you think?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSe6troPrzg&feature=youtu.be
Click to expand...

i love efren as much as the next guy, but youre grabbing at straws here. given the speed he hit the shot, i think he knew he was gonna hit it full and was trying to get separation, or he was trying to give the 9 some action and hit the wrong side of the 4. either way it was pretty cool though...
 
PoolBum said:
I think he's looking at the bank on the 4 ball. He doesn't want to hit the 4 so thin that it goes toward that first corner pocket, because then he loses his cueball flying around the table. I think he's trying to make a thicker hit on the 4 to send the cueball up table and leave distance between the cueball and the 4 and maybe put the cueball up behind the 6, 7, and 8, and to give himself a chance to make the 4 cross corner if he hits it just right. I don't know how you could ever "play" the shot he ends up making on the 9.
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Why pick out a spot on the rail directly in front of him then, he seems to do this and point to it with his left hand. Maybe I'm reading too much into it. But don't see that the spot he points to would have much to do with kicking the 4 in the corner.
 
highkarate said:
i love efren as much as the next guy, but youre grabbing at straws here. given the speed he hit the shot, i think he knew he was gonna hit it full and was trying to get separation, or he was trying to give the 9 some action and hit the wrong side of the 4. either way it was pretty cool though...
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Ok, humor me, watch it again, maybe a couple of times, and see what he does before getting down on the shot. Do you agree he points to a spot, with his left hand, that is below the first diamond on the rail nearest him?
 
If Efren was ATTEMPTING to make the nine in this fashion then he would no longer be "The Magician" but the "APA lunatic dreamer" He hit it almost exactly as he intended getting the separation but failed to pot the four.
 
punter said:
Ok, humor me, watch it again, maybe a couple of times, and see what he does before getting down on the shot. Do you agree he points to a spot, with his left hand, that is below the first diamond on the rail nearest him?
Click to expand...

that could be him marking a spot on the rail, but it could also be an idiosyncrasy just putting his hand down. even if he was trying to hit a spot, it was just to get separation. someone with his billiard knowledge wouldnt take a flyer at the 9 on the case game. he got lucky, but lucky for us viewers, he did it in dramatic fashion. kudos to you for giving a deep analysis
 
highkarate said:
that could be him marking a spot on the rail, but it could also be an idiosyncrasy just putting his hand down. even if he was trying to hit a spot, it was just to get separation. someone with his billiard knowledge wouldnt take a flyer at the 9 on the case game. he got lucky, but lucky for us viewers, he did it in dramatic fashion. kudos to you for giving a deep analysis
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Granted, even if he was playing the nine, he was at the very least, playing a two way shot.
 
When I saw this shot for the first time I didn't think it was intended. I've since changed my view somewhat. Efren seemed most concerned with the object ball path rather than the cue ball. I believe Efren had two possible favorable outcomes in mind, either a simple bank or nine ball in the side. Efren is a good chess player and I'm sure he considered every likely outcome.
 
He was playing the cueball up table, so he wanted anything but a thin hit. If anyone thinks a man walks this earth that can plan and execute a kick-3 rail bank combo into a small side pocket, they need to know about Santa and some magic reindeer.
 
punter said:
OK, watch the shot, particularly Efren's pre-shot movements. He points the cuestick to a spot on the endrail near the corner pocket opposite from him. Then he, pretty clearly IMO, looks down to the rail nearest him, and points to (or picks out) a spot inside the first diamond (points to it with his left hand).

Given these preshot actions, what shot do you think the magician had in mind here? To me, it's not too farfetched that Efren played this shot. What do you think?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSe6troPrzg&feature=youtu.be
Click to expand...

His psr had nothing to do with to do with his cb direction (he already evisioned it going uptable) and everything to to do with where on that side rail he wanted the 4 ball to bank off of. And because of the way he lined his cue there, he was definetly attempting a double bank on the 4 but his priority was sending the cb uptable.

Here's the kicker (pun intended), if he had any intentions of "riding the 9" he most certainly wouldn't have hit the high side but the bottom side of the 4 giving him all the "action" on the 9 that he could ask for.
 
He's just a lovely cuddly warm smiling gentle wonderful man. I don't care if aliens land and blast the nine ball into the pocket with special space rays. He'd still deserve the win.
 
I watched the video posted by the OP...couldn't draw a conclusion with that vid...but then I found a vid of the entire last rack (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfJnGTvxECU).

Obviously just my opinion...Efren got lucky on that 9-ball!

Neither player was playing particularly well in that game...

Efren didn't get the draw needed on the one for position on the two...

Then Efren miscalculated the 3-rail on the two and ran the cue ball into the six...

There were too many mishaps for me to think that Efren's game was so "on" that he was thinking kick shot on the four, 3-rail bank from the four to a hard cut on the nine into the side...

I do think he was going for the bank shot on the four into the far-side corner, thus allowing the cue ball to go up table for a shot on the five...which he did get position for the five (you see that if you ever take your eyes off the nine going in the side :wink: ).

I just see this as "one of the greats" getting a VERY lucky break...
 
punter said:
Ok, humor me, watch it again, maybe a couple of times, and see what he does before getting down on the shot. Do you agree he points to a spot, with his left hand, that is below the first diamond on the rail nearest him?
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I'm humoring. He's checking the bank on the 4-ball. He's playing the kick bank because its the fuller shot that controls the cue all up table to get behind the wall of balls.

Per your question he starts by lining up that spot to the lower right hand pocket which makes me believe he's playing the 4-ball into the right corner with a two ways shot.

Freddie <~~~ only knows one way
 
PoolBum said:
I think he's looking at the bank on the 4 ball. He doesn't want to hit the 4 so thin that it goes toward that first corner pocket, because then he loses his cueball flying around the table. I think he's trying to make a thicker hit on the 4 to send the cueball up table and leave distance between the cueball and the 4 and maybe put the cueball up behind the 6, 7, and 8, and to give himself a chance to make the 4 cross corner if he hits it just right. I don't know how you could ever "play" the shot he ends up making on the 9.
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^^^^ This

Freddie <~~~ first time I've ever done a post like this.
 
You know what, good eye op.I watched it a bunch of times and he did in fact point to a spot on the rail, and that is the exact spot the 4 ball hit.

I think what he was thinking was using the 9 ball to keep the 4 ball down table as he was obv trying send the cue ball up table like he did trying to get behind those balls.

So it's actually not that far fetched. If he was in fact using the 9 ball to stop the 4 then he would for sure consider one of the possible outcomes being making the 9.

Also looks like he considered another possible outcome of the 4 going in off the bank.

Btw, even the commentator said watch the 9 before the shot.

Imo he created his own luck here. Great shot.
 
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Buckzapper said:
He was playing the cueball up table, so he wanted anything but a thin hit. If anyone thinks a man walks this earth that can plan and execute a kick-3 rail bank combo into a small side pocket, they need to know about Santa and some magic reindeer.
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Well, it sure looks like there is at least one that can, and its on video. :grin:

BTW, I have known about Santa and the magic reindeer since I was a wee one. :wink:

Wouldn't it be great if someone there told Efren about this thread got him to tell us what he was really intending to do?
 
If he was trying to play the 9, he would have played it with a straight combo in the side, either kicking down to the end rail and up or hitting the ball on the lower side off the side rail. Even Efren would never have done on purpose what happened there.
 
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