Eight Ball Or Nine Ball?

My preference is 8-ball I guess because you have to think more, but I also play 9-ball now and again. I like APA 9-ball better than standard 9-ball. I used to be very big on straight pool but it's been so long since I've played it, I've lost confidence.
 
Pete said:
Hi all,

I wanted to know what people thought. What game do you preffer and why? Also what game is more of a luck game at your level and above (the break and spread come to my mind). And which is harder (on a 9' tablewith the cloth of your choice, and pocket size and type of your choice, for if the cloth and pocket size and type are the same it should effect both games the same I think)?

Pete
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I prefer 8-ball for sure. 9-ball can have too much luck, especially in shorter handicapped races. I feel like I have 'control' over an 8-ball match. In 9-ball, a lucky combo or potting the 9 early gets a win and it is tough to come back from. I can lose racks this way to a C/D+ player, not in 8-ball.

At the higher level (I'm upper B class), it requires more decision making and precision planning. You have to think of the order. 9-ball tells you what the order is.

Of course, the problem may be the handicap system itself. Giving three games in a race to seven to a strong C who makes some combos and you are down 0-5 or 0-6 before you know it is frustrating. In 8-ball against C players and down, I rarely lose a single rack. Much less luck involved. The fact is if I lose an 8-ball rack, I've made a mistake (in that rack or a previous one). In 9-ball that is not always true.

If they got rid of the rule that making the 9 early wins, it'd be a much fairer game IMHO. Then the incoming player has to run out (usually after your mistake) not an x-9 combo.
 
I can look at a 9 ball rack after the break for less than a minute and figure the pattern out. Granted, things aren't as simple as they appear. There are two-way shots, and position routes that increase your percentages, pocket choices, interesting safety/kick exchanges, and mind-boggling decisions to be made on a push-out, etc. Generally, however, there is no doubt 8 ball is a more complex game. 9 ball is a shot-makers game, primarily.

So, 8 ball is much more interesting to me, but that doesn't mean it requires more skills. Cane hit the nail on the head when it comes to the emphasis on skills required by both games. I also feel like Hobokenapa, in that, it's easier for a slightly weaker player to beat the favorite in 9 ball than it is in 8 ball (unless the favorite isn't minimumly knowledgeable of 8 ball).

I will also say that 8 ball, precisely because it's infinitely more complex, "looks" easier, but isn't. It is generally misunderstood by average 9 ball players. It requires a certain amount of theoretical knowledge. And hasn't gotten its dues because it's usually associated with bar bangers who play the game backwards anyways.

I usually get the feeling that folks who say 9 ball requires more position play accuracy are those that always end up with a failed runout and 1 tied up ball left playing 8 ball. :rolleyes:

Lastly, I'd say 8 ball might be more sensitive to equipment than 9 ball is. If the balls are breaking easy in 8 ball, it becomes banal. If not, it could be a very difficult game indeed.

Either way. I've yet to come across a cue game that I didn't find fascinating.
 
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Cornerman said:
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IMO, 8-ball has more luck involved than 9-ball by a mile. Two miles. The luck in 8-ball isn't so obvious, however.

Fred
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You probably mean;

.your opponents ability to play safe (intentional or not) based on most of your balls as blockers on the table
.your opponents position play on a wide open table

These are just some that I thought of.

Generally I prefer 9 ball but if my opponent demands 8 ball I will definitely play.
 
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8-ball on bar box- 9 ball on a big table

8-ball on a bar box is a tougher game then 9 ball on a bar box; especially if balls stay together in the 8ball break and break well on the 9-ball break....8-ball on a big table is too easy and takes away from the challenge of having to move ball around table....
 
The more balls you run in 8-ball the harder it gets to complete the run out and position of the CB becomes critical while the more balls you run in 9-ball the easier the run out gets. More thinking and strategy in 8-ball. We now have a group of 8 who get together and play 8-ball, call pocket, all balls foul.

Someone mentioned that watching Mike play Loree was like taking candy from a baby. Funny, I thought the same thing today watching Thorsten play Archer.

Jake
 
I have to say I'm pleaseantly surprised by the majority of the comments on this thread. I would have bet on a 9 ball landslide. I'm glad I was wrong.

Cane you hit the nail on the head.
Personally,
I like the 8 on the 7'
I like the nine and 1 pocket on the 9'

But if someone wants to play something different, hell I'll play anything.

I just get upset when the "kiddies" jump up and defend 9 ball because 8 ball, to them is "a bangers game". All I have to say to that is, come spend some years in a rural area with no 9' tables and play some of these back country bar box hustlers and then come tell me who the "bangers" are.

Interesting thread, hope it keeps going.
 
I would never say 8 ball is for "bangers". But, I would say that it does involve more luck. For instance, I break and sink a stripe. But, there are 2 striped clusters with all the solids open. Sure I might be able to find a strong safety to play. But, with 2 players of = skill who are u going to bet on the guy who was unlucky enough to sink a ball on the break of the wrong kind or the guy with the wide open table?

In nine ball there are lucky cases too. But, I feel they can be more controlled at a high level(which I wouldn't consider myself at LOL). For instance, a guy tries comboing the nine in a match against me. He misses and the nine lies right in front of the pocket. Guess where the 2 ball landed? Yup with the 7 ball frozen right in the way of a shot at the 2. Whats worst about it? There is also a ball blocking a direct hit at the 9. It would have been a 2 rail kick on the 2 which I wasn't feeling too comfortable about. I might have hit it. But, I might miss by about a quarter of an inch(happens all too many times). So I decide to kick at the nine. I hit it and it lands right in front of the corner pocket. Horrible roll. If u think about it it really wasn't. Just actually a bad play on my part. All I had to do was hit the right side of the 9 and I would have made it or at least not left him with the combo. So what looked like a bad roll I consider stupid play on ME. Sorry just rambling without really putting to much thought. But, hope it made some sense. I am sure what I have said probably at least gave some ideas to other people. At least I hope lol
 
Hopefully we're all thinking of real 8 ball.

World Standardized

or

BCA rules

Doesn't matter what falls on the break, as long as something falls.
 
Andrew Manning said:
I don't know about challenging, since I think there are strong arguments to be made from both sides about why one game might be more challenging than the other, but I agree totally about 8-ball being more interesting, at least to me. There are so many more variables in 8-ball than in 9-ball. Not just which ball to shoot, but how to accomplish break-outs, when to accomplish break-outs, when to shoot for a run out, when to play safe, when to just push balls into places that are good for you and bad for your opponent, etc. Even the simple accomplishment of a run-out, there's more room for creativity in 8-ball than 9-ball, in my opinion.

As for me, 8-ball is the game I prefer to play because I think it's more well-rounded. Whereas 9-ball seems like a game of execution, 8-ball seems like a game of planning, creativity, strategy, and execution to me. But I like 9-ball as a practice tool because it's less forgiving. At my level, it's good for me to play a game that forces me to make a shot and be forced to get on the correct side of the next ball even if that means taking a difficult route, because in 8-ball I sometimes find myself not giving enough attention to how precise my position play is.

-Andrew
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Andrew,
You're right that challenging is too vague a term.

To clarify, I find that 8-Ball offers a wider range of challenges and more opportunities to attempt a wider range of skills via complex patterns, bumping out balls, combinations, masse shots and defensive strategies.

I want to add, that in 8-ball, I more often can produce an out that I feel is remarkable. Like how a golfer gets addicted to the game because of that occassional super shot over or around a tree that goes 2 feet from the hole. Sometimes in 8-Ball you can begin with 5 dead balls and manipulate them through bumping, combinations, banks and clever pattern making and a bit of luck to produce an out that seemed near impossible at first glance. Making these outs produces a buzz greater than the best outs I've made in 9-Ball, because there are so many features to it, and in 9-Ball, when you get out of position it makes more sense to play safe, in 8-Ball there is more percentage in ploughing ahead with seemingly crazy shots.

I hate to knock back a chance at a creative challenging BIG shot, but that tendency kills me in 9-Ball often, in 8-Ball you often have the opportunity to play these shots because either a. There is no good safety option or b. The opponent's balls are pretty well tied up so you can expect to lose little if the BIG shot doesn't work out.
 
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