Elbow and shoulder not in the plane.

W

witzar

Registered
Hi.
I'm trying to fix my fundamentals.
I believe that the whole of my shooting arm should be in a vertical plane determined by the cue.
But shooting in front of a mirror I found that my shooting elbow is not in that plane and my shooting shoulder is not in that plane also. While the elbow goes slightly inside (closer to the body than it should be) the shooting shoulder is on the outside (the opposite side) of the plain. (I'm deliberately not using words 'left' and 'right' to make it easier, I'm shooting left-handed.)
When I look at myself shooting in front of the mirror I can easily adjust my elbow to be in the plane and I feel quite comfortable shooting this way. The problem is that when there is no mirror in front of me I don't really know where my elbow is and I believe it goes back out of the plane. After shooting for a while in front of the mirror and keeping an eye on my elbow, I hoped I will remember how it feels, but that nasty elbow prefers to go back when I'm not watching it. I will appreciate any help on overcoming this deficiency.

I was also trying to put the shoulder on the plain, but this was making me very uncomfortable.

If more information (i.e. how I get into position) is required to help me I will provide it.

I'm not sure how (if at all) my elbow problem is related with shoulder problem. I'm not sure how important it is to have the shoulder on the plane.
 
Menta Picture

While looking in the mirror at table height, keep your body still but look for benchmarks. Notice where the stick passes over your foot. Look back at the elbow, for general appearance. Notice if your bridge arm is straight or bent. Notice your stick hand intersection with the stick. Make mental pictures of all of these.

Now shoot some noting the same benchmarks.
If you are not hitting accurately, you may have to make some minor adjustments. Try the straight up center table and back to the tip at slow and medium speeds.

Having everything in one plane may or may not be your final solution. It is as good a place to start as anywhere.

Once you standardize, make a mental picture of those things in the first paragraph.
 
Welcome to the forum here Witzar :-)

To get good fundamentals is a very good idea-and to think about it also in my opinion!
To have a look in a mirror is a good first step. Many things are said about the *correct* stance, stroke etc. and it s hard to teach those things just with written words and without seeing your *live*. But you described yours good (i think, lol).
Personally i like to start with a student talkin about naturally given anatomical things. I would recommend a qualified instructor- but unfortunatley i don t know any in/from poland.
For sure i can recommend the PAT 1 DVD (german and english language to choose on it!)- in the first 20 minutes R. Eckert and A. Huber just talkin about stance and stroke and how to get into it- all based on your naturally given anatomical abilities.

It sounds terrible difficult and complicated- but if you see it in pics(on a vid) you ll understand immediatley :-)
So i really give you the advice to get this dvd- just for the first instructional things on it, where the 2 instructors are talkin about grip, stance and stroke it s worth all the bucks! And i m sure it will help you-if you have further questions don t hesitate to contact me through pm,

lg from germany,
Ingo
 
There's several things that you can do to help maintain the form here. While practicing in front of the mirror, remember certain feelings. This may sound weird, but I read in some book, to keep your elbow closer to your body, imagine pinching something like a playing card or credit card in your armpit. If you imagine it falling, your elbow may be drifting too far outwards. You can actually do this if you're at your home I guess. Next, remember the weight of the cue in your hand. Assuming you grip the same place on the cue each time, if your hand is directly underneath your elbow, your cue should feel the lightest when stroking. If it's a little inward or outward, you can learn to feel the difference in the weight and know instantly that you're off. Finally, take note of the direction your thumb is pointing. For instance, I stroke with my grip hand thumb facing directly to the floor. If I'm curled in, I could look back and notice that it's pointing a little off. This also helps me keep my wrist nice and loose for proper follow through. These are just my thoughts.
 
witzar...The easiest way to 'fix' these problems is to have a way to measure them. We can't fix what we can't measure. Figure out what your 'shooting template' is, and then practice with it, taking care to measure where your tip is going, and whether it finishes in a straight line or not. You can learn all this from our video Play Better Pool, Vol. 1. It is available from several sources on the internet, and can be shipped to you in Poland.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

witzar said:
Hi.
I'm trying to fix my fundamentals.
I believe that the whole of my shooting arm should be in a vertical plane determined by the cue.
But shooting in front of a mirror I found that my shooting elbow is not in that plane and my shooting shoulder is not in that plane also. While the elbow goes slightly inside (closer to the body than it should be) the shooting shoulder is on the outside (the opposite side) of the plain. (I'm deliberately not using words 'left' and 'right' to make it easier, I'm shooting left-handed.)
When I look at myself shooting in front of the mirror I can easily adjust my elbow to be in the plane and I feel quite comfortable shooting this way. The problem is that when there is no mirror in front of me I don't really know where my elbow is and I believe it goes back out of the plane. After shooting for a while in front of the mirror and keeping an eye on my elbow, I hoped I will remember how it feels, but that nasty elbow prefers to go back when I'm not watching it. I will appreciate any help on overcoming this deficiency.

I was also trying to put the shoulder on the plain, but this was making me very uncomfortable.

If more information (i.e. how I get into position) is required to help me I will provide it.

I'm not sure how (if at all) my elbow problem is related with shoulder problem. I'm not sure how important it is to have the shoulder on the plane.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for all the answers!

I've tried to make benchmarks and apply them, especially position of my feet, and where the cue is in relation to my shooting foot. I think this helps and I have improved, but not totally. I guess I need more time to work on this.
The improvement is the biggest with shots where I can stand comfortably. I believe that when I shoot leaning over the table, my elbow is still bent inward and shoulder is outward.

I think my forearm is usually perpendicular to the floor, no matter if my elbow is in line or not. I taught myself to "feel the gravity": when I'm in doubt about my forearm, I do a couple of micro-swings to the left and to the right to find the point where the cue feels the lightest. It usually helps (especially when muscles are truly relaxed as they need to be). I use this technique less and less frequently, as perpendicular forearm becomes more and more natural habit of mine.

I also want to thank for all suggestions about instructional materials. Definitely I will consider buying them.

I will try to give more feedback in this thread about my future improvements.
 
Scott Lee said:
witzar...The forearm should be perpendicular to the CUESTICK, not the floor, when the tip is touching the CB.
Click to expand...

Of course. I guess I didn't express myself clearly.
I wanted to say that my forearm is not tilted to the left or right when I aim or swing the cue.
At the same time, when the tip is right at the cue-ball, my forearm is perpendicular to the cue (which I try to keep as level as possible)... or at least I do my best to keep it this way. :)

So with level cue having forearm perpendicular to the floor implies having it perpendicular to the cue, if I understand it right.
 
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