European/Asian vs US pool...a question

[john coloccia]

Just curious about something. In the US, at least if the attitudes on AZB are any indication, it seems like pool is all about gambling and hustling. Personally, I was never really into that and I tend to treat it as a serious sport, but I think I'm in the minority.

In Europe/Asia, is it the same way? I wonder if what we're seeing is similar to what we saw with chess when then Soviet Union existed. It seemed like the Soviets treated chess as a very serious sport and dominated for many years, while the rest of the world treated it as a game. Yeah, there was always the gambling/gaming aspect involved everywhere, but the Soviets seemed to be the only ones that also had "serious sport" element too, and it showed in the results.

Golf is the same way...lots of gambling involved, but there's a very serious sport attitude as well, especially at the higher levels.

Is that where we are? I don't believe that Europeans and Asians are just genetically better, anymore than US players were just better when we dominated for decades, but it feels to me like we've lost, or maybe never had, the attitude that to really be world class there's an athletic aspect to the game...form, mechanics, focus. I think there are some exceptions, especially with some of the older players: Strickland, Sigel, Rempe...guys like that who really took it very seriously, and even when they were nervous or rattled could fall back on rock solid mechanics.

Just curious what everyone thinks.

 

[Bank it]

Move the rules back to the way they were when Strickland, Siegel & Rempe played the game & you will see US players dominate it again. The rule changes have edged out American players strengths while covering up Euro/Asian players weaknesses.

 

[john coloccia]

Move the rules back to the way they were when Strickland, Siegel & Rempe played the game & you will see US players dominate it again. The rule changes have edged out American players strengths while covering up Euro/Asian players weaknesses.

Which rules would you change back? I'm not sure how that could make any meaningful change in performance. Straight pool rules haven't changed significantly in a LONG time, but Europeans are starting to kill us there too, save for a handful of US players. Schmidt and Sigel come to mind, but I think Sigel's finally retired (correct me here) and I'm not sure Schmidt is really playing 14.1 anymore, is he? Earl is still a pretty frightening 14.1 player. On the other hand, I can probably name a dozen European 14.1 players, without really thinking too hard, that are a threat to win any tournament, anywhere in the world, every time they enter.

 

[Cezar Morales]

Move the rules back to the way they were when Strickland, Siegel & Rempe played the game & you will see US players dominate it again. The rule changes have edged out American players strengths while covering up Euro/Asian players weaknesses.

Lol.

Has any american since the millenium won the wpa world 9 ball apart from earl when its winner breaks.

Yeah when an american win , its becoz they r good.
When they lose , its becoz of the rules , the crowd , the climate etc lol

Good players adapt to the rules , not the other way round.

Good luck understanding that buddy

 

[Bank it]

1. Winner breaks
2. 1 on the spot

More #1 than anything, it's huge & makes a big difference in outcomes.

 

[john coloccia]

1. Winner breaks
2. 1 on the spot

More #1 than anything, it's huge & makes a big difference in outcomes.

So US strengths are pattern racking and praying that a European doesn't somehow make it to the table? That would be truly pathetic.

We're all playing by the same rules and we're getting killed. We'd better be able to bring a bit more to the table than funny business with the rack.

 

[Bank it]

Lol.



Has any american since the millenium won the wpa world 9 ball apart from earl when its winner breaks.



Yeah when an american win , its becoz they r good.

When they lose , its becoz of the rules , the crowd , the climate etc lol



Good players adapt to the rules , not the other way round.



Good luck understanding that buddy

If good players adapt to the rules then why all the 9 ball rules changes? Why couldn't Asian/Euro players adapt? The rule changes were to accommodate the shortcomings in Asian/Euro players games. It's also a real mental thing Asian/Euro players didn't do well, keep their composure in the chair when getting a package dropped on their heads, hence the change because they couldn't respond. It's easy to keep your equilibrium when you know you're going to get a chance at the table every other game instead of coping with the pressure of the electric chair while someone is running rack after rack.

When you & your weak azz non breaking Euro/Asian pals learn to break & dominate let me know. You flounder in a winner breaks format as you noted in your post. Just the way it is. How did Ko fare when him & his brother came Stateside after he won the Worlds 2 years ago, yeah, not so well in a real pool format. Cripes even Karen Corr handed him his ass.

Oh and since your such a big pool person in Asia, next time you see Ko tell him men have 1 color hair, that only women add colored highlights.

 

[Ģüśţāṿ]

I, personally, would love to see the winner breaks format back. It was exciting to watch people put together big runs!

 

[Dimeball]

So US strengths are pattern racking and praying that a European doesn't somehow make it to the table? That would be truly pathetic.

We're all playing by the same rules and we're getting killed. We'd better be able to bring a bit more to the table than funny business with the rack.

Lol what a joke!
There is a reason why in competition Earl is the only one, or one of very very few, who busted an 11 pack for the big cheese! Oh, there was a third party racking too!

Unfortunately the world today wants participation trophies, that's pathetic and why your rules are the way they are today, straight up wussy! Also why we will never really know if the players today could do it...

 

[john coloccia]

If good players adapt to the rules then why all the 9 ball rules changes? Why couldn't Asian/Euro players adapt? The rule changes were to accommodate the shortcomings in Asian/Euro players games. It's also a real mental thing Asian/Euro players didn't do well, keep their composure in the chair when getting a package dropped on their heads, hence the change because they couldn't respond. It's easy to keep your equilibrium when you know you're going to get a chance at the table every other game instead of coping with the pressure of the electric chair while someone is running rack after rack.

When you & your weak azz non breaking Euro/Asian pals learn to break & dominate let me know. You flounder in a winner breaks format as you noted in your post. Just the way it is. How did Ko fare when him & his brother came Stateside after he won the Worlds 2 years ago, yeah, not so well in a real pool format. Cripes even Karen Corr handed him his ass.

Oh and since your such a big pool person in Asia, next time you see Ko tell him men have 1 color hair, that only women add colored highlights.

If I grant you everything you're talking about, that might account for why the US isn't dominating Europe at the moment. It does nothing to explain why we can't even get to 50/50 with Europe, which is what you would expect in an alternating breaks format if, regardless how good the other team is playing. Right?

I'd say it's lucky for the US team we're playing alternating breaks or we may be doing even worse.

 

[Bank it]

So US strengths are pattern racking and praying that a European doesn't somehow make it to the table? That would be truly pathetic.



We're all playing by the same rules and we're getting killed. We'd better be able to bring a bit more to the table than funny business with the rack.

Where did pattern racking come from? Nobody's worried about someone else coming to the table when it's their turn. Perhaps you don't play seriously or well enough to understand how powerful the mental dynamic is in a winner breaks format. That pressure does not exist in alt break format & that's huge. As many have noted in this forum in thousands of threads, pool is 90% mental once you reach a certain level of physical proficiency. Removing the pressure that winner breaks formats bring to the game causes the game to be something it's not.

 

[john coloccia]

Where did pattern racking come from? Nobody's worried about someone else coming to the table when it's their turn. Perhaps you don't play seriously or well enough to understand how powerful the mental dynamic is in a winner breaks format. That pressure does not exist in alt break format & that's huge. As many have noted in this forum in thousands of threads, pool is 90% mental once you reach a certain level of physical proficiency. Removing the pressure that winner breaks formats bring to the game causes the game to be something it's not.

After watching our MC performance for 2 days, I'm pretty confident that winner breaks would favor the Europeans.

 

[vjmehra]

If good players adapt to the rules then why all the 9 ball rules changes? Why couldn't Asian/Euro players adapt? The rule changes were to accommodate the shortcomings in Asian/Euro players games. It's also a real mental thing Asian/Euro players didn't do well, keep their composure in the chair when getting a package dropped on their heads, hence the change because they couldn't respond. It's easy to keep your equilibrium when you know you're going to get a chance at the table every other game instead of coping with the pressure of the electric chair while someone is running rack after rack.

When you & your weak azz non breaking Euro/Asian pals learn to break & dominate let me know. You flounder in a winner breaks format as you noted in your post. Just the way it is. How did Ko fare when him & his brother came Stateside after he won the Worlds 2 years ago, yeah, not so well in a real pool format. Cripes even Karen Corr handed him his ass.

Oh and since your such a big pool person in Asia, next time you see Ko tell him men have 1 color hair, that only women add colored highlights.

The rules were changed to make pool more of a spectator sport for TV.

I'm not saying its the correct decision to have done that, but that (I believe) was the rationale, it was not intended to favour any particular group of players.

Whether its had the desired effect is debatable, I know plenty of people don't like the current rules, is pool more marketable for TV now? Not sure, but I presume as soon as someone has a better idea Barry Hearn will be the first to try it!