Exactness

J

JDB

Idiot Savant
Silver Member
I was watching a stream the other day; not sure which one, but most would probably qualify.

What struck me about the match was the exactness of how the pros play position. Almost every shot is exactly where it should be. Not close to the position that they wanted, but exactly where they want the position to be.

I really believe that is the major difference between being an elite player and a shortstop/AAA player. The pros have the ability to be exact in position play while lower level players are just a little bit off which requires them to play a safety or miss a shot later in the rack.

Just something I observed. Let me know your thoughts.

Thanks.
 
Alex Pagulayan to one of the commentators during his match with Shane, "That's why I'm playing for $10,000 and your in the booth." I may be a word or two off but it was classic when he said it.
 
I believe you still have to be able to shoot your way out of trouble and maintain the ability to make the right decision at the right time. I've seen top pros including Mika, SVB and Hatch get out of line on a 7 and play safe, locking up behind the 8 or 9.
 
JDB said:
I was watching a stream the other day; not sure which one, but most would probably qualify.

What struck me about the match was the exactness of how the pros play position. Almost every shot is exactly where it should be. Not close to the position that they wanted, but exactly where they want the position to be.

I really believe that is the major difference between being an elite player and a shortstop/AAA player. The pros have the ability to be exact in position play while lower level players are just a little bit off which requires them to play a safety or miss a shot later in the rack.

Just something I observed. Let me know your thoughts.

Thanks.
Click to expand...


I think better positional play and a wider repertoire of shots would be two key differentiators. But I think the most important one would be consistency. Probably, at one time or another, we've all experienced being in "dead punch" but the experience, for the amateur, is usually pretty fleeting, maybe lasting a night or a tournament. The pros can more consistently perform at or near their top gear.

Lou Figueroa
 
Almost perfect position play= almost never a hard shot.
Reached through Several thousands practice sessions.
Furthermore visualisation is a great aspect here, too.
 
Pin-point position over-rated?

C.Milian said:
"Pinpoint" position is over-rated.
Click to expand...

I agree that pinpoint position may be over-rated, but isn't it something to strive for? It's necessary quite often, particularly in games with fifteen OBs on the table. I know that some folks who struggle with position play tend to rely on shot-making ability and may get by with that approach much of the time. They may not have the patience (or time) to develop high level cue ball control, and give up on the idea.
It's quite true that you don't always need precision CB control to run a rack of 9-ball, but high level safety play requires exquisite CB control in most every game.
Keep in mind that if you always play for area position, you will never progress beyond that. I've always taught that one should strive for precise position on every shot, whether it's needed or not, because it's good practice. And amazingly, if you go for pin-point position all the time, you get better at it!!
Donny L
PPIA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl
 
Donny Lutz said:
I agree that pinpoint position may be over-rated, but isn't it something to strive for? It's necessary quite often, particularly in games with fifteen OBs on the table. I know that some folks who struggle with position play tend to rely on shot-making ability and may get by with that approach much of the time. They may not have the patience (or time) to develop high level cue ball control, and give up on the idea.
It's quite true that you don't always need precision CB control to run a rack of 9-ball, but high level safety play requires exquisite CB control in most every game.
Keep in mind that if you always play for area position, you will never progress beyond that. I've always taught that one should strive for precise position on every shot, whether it's needed or not, because it's good practice. And amazingly, if you go for pin-point position all the time, you get better at it!!
Donny L
PPIA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl
Click to expand...

Donny,
I think this is wonderful advice. I have often played area position. I recently have been working on precision position during my practice sessions. You are absolutely correct. If you practice it more, you get better at it. I had a break and run the other day playing 8 ball on a 9 footer where my cue ball only had to go to a rail once. The balls were very clustered, and precision position was a must. It works great if you have been practicing.

For me, the hardest part about precise position is speed control. The pros have always amazed me by how accurate their speed control is. It is something I work on very hard.

Braden
 
Donny Lutz said:
I agree that pinpoint position may be over-rated, but isn't it something to strive for? It's necessary quite often, particularly in games with fifteen OBs on the table. I know that some folks who struggle with position play tend to rely on shot-making ability and may get by with that approach much of the time. They may not have the patience (or time) to develop high level cue ball control, and give up on the idea.
It's quite true that you don't always need precision CB control to run a rack of 9-ball, but high level safety play requires exquisite CB control in most every game.
Keep in mind that if you always play for area position, you will never progress beyond that. I've always taught that one should strive for precise position on every shot, whether it's needed or not, because it's good practice. And amazingly, if you go for pin-point position all the time, you get better at it!!
Donny L
PPIA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl
Click to expand...

I think it is very hard to account for all that felt going from ball to ball. It seems very easy to play "pin point" when you're going one rail out all the time...but even then I can't imagine trying to get to that exact spot...it would drive me nuts. It would drive my opponent nuts. HMMMMMM.
 
I don't think high level players really look to achieve pinpoint position on their shots, at least for most normal shots. There are certainly exceptions where utmost precision is needed depending on the rack layout, when playing certain safeties, etc. As others have said, that something extra that they have, and really the difference between other higher levels as well, is consistency, knowledge (pattern recognition and shot selection), and shot making/execution.

Certainly when a player is playing well they tend to be closer to or even right on the exact position they were striving for, but normally playing the correct shots and speed will allow the player to have a decent margin of error to still be on the proper side of the shot and within the proper range of angles to make execution of the current shot and position on the next one a very high percentage most of the time.

Scott
 
Donny Lutz said:
I agree that pinpoint position may be over-rated, but isn't it something to strive for?
Click to expand...

It is easier and almost as effective to get on the correct side of the next ball one must shoot so that the angle allows easy access to your still subsequent shot.

Where we amateurs go wrong is not getting on the correct side of the next shot which screws up the subsequent shot's position opportunities.
 
In flight school one of the lessons was a perfect landing. Not bounce the left gear and then the right and bounce the nose, but both main at the same time right on the threshold, hold the nose up until it settled onto the runway on its own. The finesse wasn't graded, but it was encouraged that we took the time to make every part of the flight enjoyable, precise, and beautiful to watch.

In regards to pool I did read an article somewhere about finding the heart of the pocket on every pot. Not double the jaws and rattle it in, no tradesmen's entrance. Right in the center, subtle and quiet. Since I had taken the flight lesson to heart I found this article (I should have added it to my favorites) to fit perfectly in line with that philosophy.

Precision is gorgeous to watch, and great to perform. It makes 7 hours of practice fly by when everything just clicks. The easiest way to get to that perfect position for me is to come into the line of your shot. Everything still works but your not always on the razor's edge like when you have to cross the line.
 
Can't imagine?

C.Milian said:
I think it is very hard to account for all that felt going from ball to ball. It seems very easy to play "pin point" when you're going one rail out all the time...but even then I can't imagine trying to get to that exact spot...it would drive me nuts. It would drive my opponent nuts. HMMMMMM.
Click to expand...

"Hard to account for all that felt"? If you think becoming a professional (or even high level "amateur") player is easy, maybe you need to re-assess what it takes to play at a high level.
"can't imagine"? Imagination is a huge part of learning the game of pool. If looking for precise position beyond "one rail and out" is beyond your imagination, it certainly isn't for the pros. Maybe why they're pros?
Why would playing accurate position drive your opponents nuts? I suppose if it meant you were beating them with your advanced play!
I can only speak for what I've seen, learned from pros, and my own experience. When I found myself dis-satisfied with my CB control around thirty years ago, I decided to go for precise position on every shot. Even when I would be satisfied with just coming within a couple feet of the exact spot. I was amazed at how rapidly my CB control improved, so I have been teaching this approach for many years.
 
Donny Lutz said:
"Hard to account for all that felt"? If you think becoming a professional (or even high level "amateur") player is easy, maybe you need to re-assess what it takes to play at a high level.
"can't imagine"? Imagination is a huge part of learning the game of pool. If looking for precise position beyond "one rail and out" is beyond your imagination, it certainly isn't for the pros. Maybe why they're pros?
Why would playing accurate position drive your opponents nuts? I suppose if it meant you were beating them with your advanced play!
I can only speak for what I've seen, learned from pros, and my own experience. When I found myself dis-satisfied with my CB control around thirty years ago, I decided to go for precise position on every shot. Even when I would be satisfied with just coming within a couple feet of the exact spot. I was amazed at how rapidly my CB control improved, so I have been teaching this approach for many years.
Click to expand...

But when you play good shape your always where you need to be....in line.
 
Exact position by the pros?

scottjen26 said:
I don't think high level players really look to achieve pinpoint position on their shots, at least for most normal shots. There are certainly exceptions where utmost precision is needed depending on the rack layout, when playing certain safeties, etc. As others have said, that something extra that they have, and really the difference between other higher levels as well, is consistency, knowledge (pattern recognition and shot selection), and shot making/execution.

Certainly when a player is playing well they tend to be closer to or even right on the exact position they were striving for, but normally playing the correct shots and speed will allow the player to have a decent margin of error to still be on the proper side of the shot and within the proper range of angles to make execution of the current shot and position on the next one a very high percentage most of the time.

Scott
Click to expand...

When you have BAll IN HAND, do you drop the CB in a general area or do you place it PRECISELY where you want it? If the latter, doesn't it follow that while approximate position may be OK, precise position is always best?

You choose position plans that give you a margin for error, but there is still an ideal spot for the CB within that area.

My point has been that IMPROVING your CB control is greatly enhanced by going for precise control all the time, whether it's critical or not.

Donny L
PPIA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville,Fl
 
In line?

C.Milian said:
But when you play good shape your always where you need to be....in line.
Click to expand...

"Good shape" is a very relative thing. What may satisfy you may not satisfy the next player.
Being in line is critical, but would you rather be "in line" on a 3-foot shot or a 7-foot shot?
Would you rather be in line on a shot you can reach or one that requires the bridge?
Would you rather be in line over a ball or not over a ball?
Would you rather be in line with the CB frozen to the rail, or a few inches off?

Being "in line" is an important concept, but is just not enough by itself.

When I play position I generally don't look for pretty good position, but the position that will make my next shot even easier.

But I'm willing to accept that many players don't go for precise CB control for their own reasons. To each his/her own!
 
  • Like
Reactions: TSW
Donny Lutz said:
"Good shape" is a very relative thing. What may satisfy you may not satisfy the next player.
Being in line is critical, but would you rather be "in line" on a 3-foot shot or a 7-foot shot?
Would you rather be in line on a shot you can reach or one that requires the bridge?
Would you rather be in line over a ball or not over a ball?
Would you rather be in line with the CB frozen to the rail, or a few inches off?

Being "in line" is an important concept, but is just not enough by itself.

When I play position I generally don't look for pretty good position, but the position that will make my next shot even easier.

But I'm willing to accept that many players don't go for precise CB control for their own reasons. To each his/her own!
Click to expand...

You have to be brain dead to be in line and get a seven footer on your next shot. Sometimes you have to stop the rock and take the 7 footer bank.
 
If you playing 9 ball, then in the general area is considered good shape.

Beyond 9 ball, just striving for being in the general area will get you more loss's than wins.

1mm can be the difference between a win and a loss. If you do not understand this, you got a long way to go.

There are times where going for the general area is good enough, and other times you must be spot on in your position and both of these requirements can occur during just one game.

If you are going to make a shot and set up for a bank as your next shot, 1mm can make the difference in how hard or easy a bank is.

Pool is a game of mm's.

FWIW, remember there are more games beyond 9 ball that require much more from a players skill level.
 
Please re-read!

C.Milian said:
You have to be brain dead to be in line and get a seven footer on your next shot. Sometimes you have to stop the rock and take the 7 footer bank.
Click to expand...

Or perhaps brain-dead not to recognize simple logic. You actually disagree with yourself here (being in line is good enough,and then it isn't)!!

Please re-read the comments on this thread. Try to find the connections between them. Consider that some of us may actually be correct occasionally. We try to respond thoughtfully and tactfully to other posts. The idea here is to share ideas, not to prove you know more than someone you may disagree with.

Donny L
PPIA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top