eye dominance & unintended english

northman said:
...When i line up a shot and position the cue tip for what looks like a center ball hit, I am actually putting a little right english on the cueball. To get a true center hit, I have to consciously move the tip (as it appears to my eyes) to the left maybe 1/4 cue tip. I then can stroke a much truer shot.

I can verify this if I close my right eye while down on the shot, and position the tip for a center hit. When I open both eyes the tip appears to be shifted slightly to the left.
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This is a fairly common problem. I know at least one player who lined up maybe 3/4 tip off-center and thought he was in the center of the ball. He corrected by subconsciously swerving during the stroke (pulling his hand towards his body on the forward part of the stroke). It sounds like you haven't gotten to the subconscious correction stage which is good because then it becomes a very hard habit to break.

See if a different head position makes things look right. The absolutely standard "over the spots" drill using a stripe as the cue ball should help.
 
fxskater said:
I don't believe in Eye Dominance. Likely it is your stroke, your arm is probably flailing out on contact. I am kinda correcting a similar problem except my arm goes INWARDS towards my body near the end of my right handed stroke for unintentional right english. Its fixed now though.
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Maybe it's not eye dominance that is causing it, but it is something. Don't think I'm flailing. I can close my right eye and line up the tip with my left eye, when I open my right eye the tip then appears to be a bit left of center. When I stroke (a long straight in shot marked out with hole stickers) with this apparent left english the object ball is going much straighter and hitting the back of the pocket more consistently, so I don't think that is an indicator that I'm flailing. I'd rather not have to get in the habit of winking before every shot, might attract unwanted attention in certain bars. I could maybe work up a twitchy routine similar to Forrest Whittaker in the Color of Money, and start hustling, perhaps. Seriously, though, having to throw a fudge factor into every shot is not ideal, just seems to work better than being definately off every shot.
 
Rgp's.....

Ok, guess I'll add my two cents.....

First, dominance plays a huge part in how you line up over a ball, and whether or not you are hitting the point you are aiming at. (the perception of needing a binocular view to play well is baloney) Think about professional target shooters and the fact that almost all of them close one eye while shooting. Anyone standing in front of you as you shoot a straight in shot should be able to tell which eye is closer to the center-line of your shaft. The ability to cosistently hit the target point is a life-long work for most of us!

Adjusting your aiming point left or right a certain amount to compensate is only going to make your game less consistent. I would advise getting together with a friend and a video camera and take turns filming each other for stroke improvement and alignment. Use a training cue ball and shoot long straight in draw shots. (mark a chalk line on the table if possible) This will give you immediate feed-back. You are better off learning a different stance/head placement if necc. to get the alignment so that you can hit what you are aiming at.

Lastly, RGP lenses (gas permeables) move WAAAY more than soft lenses. They may or may not offer more clarity of vision depending on your particular correction/physiology. They are DEFINATELY NOT as comfortable as soft lenses! Talk to your eye doc, we know these things, Scott
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Tony's surgery simply sharpened his vision. Nothing in his hand-eye coordination was altered. If he WERE doing that before, he's doing it still. I'll ask him but I honestly believe that to be the case.
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Hi Jude,Tony's hand eye coordination were never in question, at least by me.Judging by his own supposed statement(according to the guy at that website link) his problem was a visual one (an optical illusion) which had him addressing the cue ball off center (to the right) when his eyes told him he was lining up the cue ball dead center.
I was just wondering if the eye surgery has corrected his optical illusion problems(and he now accuratley see's center as center)and if you could ask him for(us) me.

I just posted this because respectfully, I think you may have misunderstood what I was trying to say.If not, no sweat...it's all good
:D Take care, RJ
 
northman said:
Maybe it's not eye dominance that is causing it, but it is something. Don't think I'm flailing. I can close my right eye and line up the tip with my left eye, when I open my right eye the tip then appears to be a bit left of center. When I stroke (a long straight in shot marked out with hole stickers) with this apparent left english the object ball is going much straighter and hitting the back of the pocket more consistently, so I don't think that is an indicator that I'm flailing. I'd rather not have to get in the habit of winking before every shot, might attract unwanted attention in certain bars. I could maybe work up a twitchy routine similar to Forrest Whittaker in the Color of Money, and start hustling, perhaps. Seriously, though, having to throw a fudge factor into every shot is not ideal, just seems to work better than being definately off every shot.
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One other thing... is your right (bridge arm for a lefty) extended? The closer you eyes are to the cue ball the more exaggerated this would be.
 
For some reason I always address the cue ball slightly to the right and the result is unintentional english. I needed to consiously make an adjustment to the left. I then remembered reading some place that by placing the cue at the base of the cue ball the reflection of the ferrule will tell me if I am at center ball. If I am to the right the reflection be canted towards the left. Dead center is straight on as far as the reflection goes. Make sense?
 
Gerald said:
For some reason I always address the cue ball slightly to the right and the result is unintentional english. I needed to consiously make an adjustment to the left. I then remembered reading some place that by placing the cue at the base of the cue ball the reflection of the ferrule will tell me if I am at center ball. If I am to the right the reflection be canted towards the left. Dead center is straight on as far as the reflection goes. Make sense?
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One of the pros taught me that a few years ago, thanks for reminding me. I can't remember who it was that taught me this.
 
I've been curious about the relationship between eye dominance and the way one perceives his relationship to the cue ball. I'm left-handed and left-eye dominant. When it looks to me as though I'm centered over the cue ball, turns out that my left eye is over it. I assume that's what "dominance" does?
 
Fliedout said:
I've been curious about the relationship between eye dominance and the way one perceives his relationship to the cue ball. I'm left-handed and left-eye dominant. When it looks to me as though I'm centered over the cue ball, turns out that my left eye is over it. I assume that's what "dominance" does?
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That's exactly what eye-dominance does. However, and it should be noted, that some people do not have a dominant eye. In fact, a lot of women don't have a dominant eye and will use both eyes to aim. This is why you see many women with their cues directly below their chin.

If you do have a dominant eye, you will naturally favor it without thinking.
 
northman said:
Hello all, I am trying to get serious about pool for the first time, after screwing around on and off for a number of years.

When i line up a shot and position the cue tip for what looks like a center ball hit, I am actually putting a little right english on the cueball. To get a true center hit, I have to consciously move the tip (as it appears to my eyes) to the left maybe 1/4 cue tip. I then can stroke a much truer shot.

I can verify this if I close my right eye while down on the shot, and position the tip for a center hit. When I open both eyes the tip appears to be shifted slightly to the left.

I am left handed, left eye dominant, and position my head such that my chin is to the right of the cue, which should put my dominant eye over the stick.

At first I ignored this effect, and I would consistently miss a long straight in shot to the right, with the cueball moving to the left. I contend that with the unintentional right english the cueball swerves to the left, causing the problems. I am able to get a fairly consistent shot like this anyway with the correct speed and a little follow (guessing the swerve and the throw counter each other), but as soon as I try a harder stun or draw shot the wheels come off and I miss badly.

So my question is, do any of you make a similar correction for eyesight, either consciously or not? If so, what have you found to either help or cope with the phenomenon? Do glasses affect this at all? (I have never worn glasses, but I do have a slight astigmatism)

Thanks for the help.


Northman
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Northman, you bring up some good points.

I think it is important for each person to make adjustments just like you are doing to see what works best for you. I have been paying A LOT of attention to top speed pool players and it seems that the majority that I have been watching closely align their cue stick under one particular eye.

I have seen top speed right handed players align the cue stick under their left eye "because the shot looks right" as well as right handed/right eye cue alignment and of course the centered version.

I think my eyes are centered over the shaft most of the time. When I have a tough shot and a must make shot where I am not playing instinctively, I will occasionally close my left eye, allowing my dominant right eye to center over the shaft as if I were shooting a rifle. After I have aimed the shot carefully with one eye open, I then allow the other eye to open, making sure that I don't move any part of my body except my arm when stroking because at first when I open my closed eye the shot does not look correct and my eyes need a few seconds to focus together. Keeping perfectly still and not moving I take a couple of strokes and shoot the shot, most of the time pocketing the "tough shot". This doesn't work all of the time but it seems that it has improved my average on tough shots. I have been watching Cliff Joyner play for the last month or so and he always has his right eye over the shaft.

Can your brain adjust for any mis-alignment of your eyes or body? Sure it can but to what degree? It is better to get your body and your eyes lined up where you can consistently pocket balls and don't force your brain to work over-time and make adjustments.

Continue on experimenting. You have to find out what's best for you.

Joey (It is up to each person to work out his own salvation).
 
JoeyA said:
I think my eyes are centered over the shaft most of the time. When I have a tough shot and a must make shot where I am not playing instinctively, I will occasionally close my left eye, allowing my dominant right eye to center over the shaft as if I were shooting a rifle. After I have aimed the shot carefully with one eye open, I then allow the other eye to open, making sure that I don't move any part of my body except my arm when stroking because at first when I open my closed eye the shot does not look correct and my eyes need a few seconds to focus together. Keeping perfectly still and not moving I take a couple of strokes and shoot the shot, most of the time pocketing the "tough shot". This doesn't work all of the time but it seems that it has improved my average on tough shots. I have been watching Cliff Joyner play for the last month or so and he always has his right eye over the shaft.
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I actually did a little research on this subject albeit, through various sites and I have to say, closing your non-dominant eye is not a good idea. Not only do you lose out on stereo-vision (taking away your depth perception), you also are contracting many muscles in your face that will cause your open eye to blink more.


One other thing I found which I thought was rather interesting was how eye-dominance changes rather naturally depending on which way you're looking. This may sound trivial but think about it: Look to your left and your left eye will take over. Look to your right and your right eye will. Depending on how your body is positioned when you're determing the contact point will influence the image you're trying to obtain when you're down on the shot. Broken down simply, even though you may be right-eye dominant while shooting, you may be using either eye when standing and aiming.

Players who constantly approach a shot from the side and sort of slide into their stance will run the risk of accidentally using their non-dominant eye prior to entering their stance. This is why the very best players center themselves prior to getting down. Their consistency begins with making sure they're obtaining the contact point with their dominant eye. That way, the mental image they create for themselves can be easily retrieved once they're down on a shot.
 
ok does this make sence?? i am left eye dominate (and a righty) with out my contacts in i seem to shoot better with my left eye over the cue. when my contacts are in my eyes are equal and i shoot better dead center. infact it even seems i get unwanted right hand spin if i put my left eye over the cue with contacts in. does this make sence or is it all in my head?
 
If you keep putting unintended english on most of your shots when you are trying to put center, I think there is a big chance that it has nothing to do with your eye dominance. It could be something as simple as the back end of the cue moving slightly to the right or the left as you are GETTING DOWN on the shot. Gabe Owen is a fine example of how to get down on a shot. He puts his cue on line, and keeps it perfectly still, and slowly and smoothly descends into the shot. Try looking at the middle of your cue as you are getting down into the shot. If you see any movement, try to eliminate it and your problem might be solved.
 
The eye is the one sense that will play tricks on you especially when under pressure. Many years ago I noticed a very good player with vision in only one eye. I tried an experiment of only shooting with one eye open. To do this I also streghtened my dominant eye by keeping the other one closed when doing daily tasks. After several weeks I found that I shot better with one eye closed, especially under pressure. I may feel uncomfortable in the beginning but it is the natural way for me to shoot now. It works for me but it did take time to learn to do it.
 
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