Favorite/easiest diamond banking systems.
- Thread starter j2pac
- Start date
You didn't!!??
At last count there were like 187 systems, according to, oops. Better not name him.
I've looked at a few. Just trying to get some feel for the "easiest" method. Understandably this is subjective. I'm looking for "banking for dummies."You didn't!!??
At last count there were like 187 systems, according to, oops. Better not name him.
Good point. GC's are the easiest, imo.
I go off on a flyer now and then trying to learn a different approach. Wind up back where I started every time.I've looked at a few. Just trying to get some feel for the "easiest" method. Understandably this is subjective. I'm looking for "banking for dummies."
Good idea for a book actually. 'For dummies!!'
Lord knows there's plenty of filler for one.
Find a billiards book with the 3 rail routes and ball tracks. Hoppe's has 'em, and copy, copy, copy.
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
While not banks, Deadaim's kicking academy has a plethora of systems and tracks. If you study and practice that, much of it can be used for banks with a little adaptation. Basically the routes are the same but you might have to adjust for the fact that the OB doesn't carry spin like the CB which you hit directly. You also have to account for CIT and such.
Honestly I find banking so speed and table dependent that most of it is just eyeballing for me. A shot either feels on of off. Even things like Z banks are pretty much just figuring out the 1 rail bank and dividing the table up to account for the extra rail and how it effects the CB.
The trick where you lay a table matrix out and aim for a pocket (which may be 2 or 3 imaginary tables away works pretty well. It's a lot about the angles and if you can kind of imagine the angles it works, kind of like fly on the wall. It's very difficult to describe because it's really just getting a feel for the angles and imaginary pockets.
Banking with the Beard books are very good. While I can't really think of anything off the top of my head, I will be watching the thread because there are a lot of systems out there.
EDIT: In case you've not checked it out: https://drdavepoolinfo.com/faq/bank-kick/ and here's the Deadaim Kicking Academy: https://drdavepoolinfo.com/resource_files/dead_aim_kicking_academy.pdf
Honestly I find banking so speed and table dependent that most of it is just eyeballing for me. A shot either feels on of off. Even things like Z banks are pretty much just figuring out the 1 rail bank and dividing the table up to account for the extra rail and how it effects the CB.
The trick where you lay a table matrix out and aim for a pocket (which may be 2 or 3 imaginary tables away works pretty well. It's a lot about the angles and if you can kind of imagine the angles it works, kind of like fly on the wall. It's very difficult to describe because it's really just getting a feel for the angles and imaginary pockets.
Banking with the Beard books are very good. While I can't really think of anything off the top of my head, I will be watching the thread because there are a lot of systems out there.
EDIT: In case you've not checked it out: https://drdavepoolinfo.com/faq/bank-kick/ and here's the Deadaim Kicking Academy: https://drdavepoolinfo.com/resource_files/dead_aim_kicking_academy.pdf
As noted by others, banking is highly table dependent. Not just in the way the cushions play, but where the diamonds are located. The diamond setback standard of 3 and 11/16 inches is frequently violated, sometimes by major pool table manufacturers. Although the setback is often off, the spacing of diamonds along the rail is usually accurate, so you should have a good reference for measuring along the axes. Instead of aiming at diamonds, there are advantages of using aim points either on the rail groove or rail nose.
If you are willing to forsake the diamonds, the best treatment of banking I have found is Jack Koehler's The Science of Pocket Biliards. The chapter on banks is a bit disorganized, but he hits on all of the major banking issues. The many factors are a bit overwhelming, but if you look at his examples, it is easily seen that the major factors are : Calculation of the in=out aim point, compensation for rail push-back (this is the biggie), and compensating for throw (outside gearing english). The contribution of other factors is usually small enough to be ignored.
Billiards As It Should Be Played by Willie Hoppe is a favorite reference book.
The Diamond System in Freddy Bentivegna's books for side rail banks is what I use.
I didn't get it from that book. I developed it on my own, but what I do is nearly identical.
The books show a lot of multi rail banks and his take on passover banks is interesting
but those are developed off feel for the most part from playing a lot of one pocket.
End rail and side rail banks that present them selves as straight backs need no diamond
counts, just feel in my opinion. A little coaching but once you get the way to make the
adjustments they deadly.
As was mentioned in an earlier post, systems are table dependent and that changes on the same table at times due to “conditions” I.E. dry/ “wet” table, as well as numerous other variables like spin you may be imparting with your stroke without really knowing you’re doing it, as well as speed of stroke, how clean or dirty the balls are, etc.
I’m fortunate in that I just kinda “see it” so it came relatively easy to me. Your best bet is spending a portion of your table time playing short rack banks when you play. I think it’s something you develop a feel for by just doing it. It’s also a great game for your stroke. Wish I could give you something better, but that’s all I’ve got
I’m fortunate in that I just kinda “see it” so it came relatively easy to me. Your best bet is spending a portion of your table time playing short rack banks when you play. I think it’s something you develop a feel for by just doing it. It’s also a great game for your stroke. Wish I could give you something better, but that’s all I’ve got
basically the parallel system of just moving along the line gives a great start and teaches you to adjust for speed , tables, and english,
and is the easiest to use without hardly any thinking . then the practice to get the feel for where to hit and how to hit.
in a short time you can get to hit what side of the object ball you want to hit or even what side of the pocket you want to go to.
and for many multi rail shots you can still use it and work backwards. but as said 3 cushion books with diagrams take you thru to a decent level.
but an hour of practice learning where the cue ball comes back to from different positions works wonders. especially using different english.
and is the easiest to use without hardly any thinking . then the practice to get the feel for where to hit and how to hit.
in a short time you can get to hit what side of the object ball you want to hit or even what side of the pocket you want to go to.
and for many multi rail shots you can still use it and work backwards. but as said 3 cushion books with diagrams take you thru to a decent level.
but an hour of practice learning where the cue ball comes back to from different positions works wonders. especially using different english.
Are you playing any one pocket?
I have watched pretty much every decent video on banking and kicking on Youtube. Dozens of them or more. Oldtimers like Bugs, stalwarts like DrDave and newbies you never heard of.
The best tutorials on banking, to me, are from Tor Lowry. His videos on Zero-X Banking and Kicking and Diamond Systems are excellent. They give you a great foundation.
Scott Rohelder, DrDave and Anthony Beeler (on a more complete Sid system) are also good supplements.
Lots of comments mention table and room conditions. These are always factors. I played on a table yesterday on which the Corner 5 system was a disaster. About two diamonds off. Just a few weeks ago, the same table was accurate with the Corner 5 system.
I can figure out the table condition with about 5 minutes of practice, though. After I realized the table was off, I found that a 2-1 kick would work by adding a quarter tip of running English instead of hitting just a tip above center (which works on most tables). I used pocket speed or a bit slower.
Most pros hit banks with fast speed since faster speed can mostly negate table conditions.
Still, one has to learn the basics of what affects banking to know how to adjust: How slow and fast speed change the outcome. When to use inside or outside spin and how it affects banks. What to do if the ball is near to the rail, or far away. How to pocket reverse banks. And so forth.
Tor Lowry provides most of the answers. The only knock I have is that he uses a hair of spin on most banks or kicks. Only late in one of his videos does he mention he prefers to bank without spin by hitting a slightly different spot than what his Zero X system suggests.
Same with me. I practice banking mostly without spin. Yet even after a few years of intense practice, I still haven't mastered hitting banks with fast speed like the pros. You have to be even more accurate since the pockets play tighter for banks at fast speed.
NOTE: One thing I have noticed is pros play banks to the corners, or long rail banks, at slower speeds than banks to the side pockets. They tend to bank very fast on side banks.
The best tutorials on banking, to me, are from Tor Lowry. His videos on Zero-X Banking and Kicking and Diamond Systems are excellent. They give you a great foundation.
Scott Rohelder, DrDave and Anthony Beeler (on a more complete Sid system) are also good supplements.
Lots of comments mention table and room conditions. These are always factors. I played on a table yesterday on which the Corner 5 system was a disaster. About two diamonds off. Just a few weeks ago, the same table was accurate with the Corner 5 system.
I can figure out the table condition with about 5 minutes of practice, though. After I realized the table was off, I found that a 2-1 kick would work by adding a quarter tip of running English instead of hitting just a tip above center (which works on most tables). I used pocket speed or a bit slower.
Most pros hit banks with fast speed since faster speed can mostly negate table conditions.
Still, one has to learn the basics of what affects banking to know how to adjust: How slow and fast speed change the outcome. When to use inside or outside spin and how it affects banks. What to do if the ball is near to the rail, or far away. How to pocket reverse banks. And so forth.
Tor Lowry provides most of the answers. The only knock I have is that he uses a hair of spin on most banks or kicks. Only late in one of his videos does he mention he prefers to bank without spin by hitting a slightly different spot than what his Zero X system suggests.
Same with me. I practice banking mostly without spin. Yet even after a few years of intense practice, I still haven't mastered hitting banks with fast speed like the pros. You have to be even more accurate since the pockets play tighter for banks at fast speed.
NOTE: One thing I have noticed is pros play banks to the corners, or long rail banks, at slower speeds than banks to the side pockets. They tend to bank very fast on side banks.
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