Fear of Feel

[Neil]

I do understand the system and even more what needs to happen to make it work.
Check this video out, pay attention to Stans body on his line ups. Its obvious he is not in the same position on both shots,(but he say's he is) and he's creating(different cut angles) this on a surface that isn't a 2x1 surface . Looks like you have done nothing but fool yourself into playing better....I guess. If its working keep at it.:wink:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIFI6K_nNhE

You aren't understanding what he is saying. He's not saying what YOU think he is. His perception of both shots is a 15 degree perception. That means, he is going to use the same visuals for both shots.

However, his perspective of each shot is different. His perspective of the shot is from visual intelligence, or experience. That is what tells him where to stand to make the shot. And where to stand to get the proper visuals.

As far as the kitchen counter not being a 2x1 surface, that is immaterial to the discussion he was having. You didn't see him trying to pocket any balls on the counter, did you?

 

[Neil]

Cookie,

Neil refuses to answer such questions & always says that the asker is just trolling (trawling) for a word trap to nit pick.

Is that what you're doing?

You're hurting my teeth pulling them out one by one.

If you have a point why don't you just simply state it & knock all of my teeth out with the one punch.

But... I'll play along a bit longer, but please make your statement & hopefully a valid point.

Shot #1 is very close to a 15* degree shot & given the exact positioning of the balls & the caveat of the visual 'markers' not being 'objective' by strict definition but since they are discernable by most & could be considered 'objective' for discussion purposes & given the fact, like PJ pointed out, that the decision of when it would be the shot is still base on subjective intuition, then I'd say that it could be considered to be 'objective'.

Now what?

More lies, insults, degradation, and refusal to answer a simple question. Very typical.

 

[8pack]

You aren't understanding what he is saying. He's not saying what YOU think he is. His perception of both shots is a 15 degree perception. That means, he is going to use the same visuals for both shots.

However, his perspective of each shot is different. His perspective of the shot is from visual intelligence, or experience. That is what tells him where to stand to make the shot. And where to stand to get the proper visuals.

As far as the kitchen counter not being a 2x1 surface, that is immaterial to the discussion he was having. You didn't see him trying to pocket any balls on the counter, did you?

What is hard to understand is how he can create any perception on that table(with no pockets) but yet he couldn't on a meg shift pocket on a regular table. Now it only works on a table that doesn't have the 2x1 only if it has no pockets..:confused. There's nothing about a shot that can give you the right perception other than knowing where the pocket is, which brings up another truth, the curtain, just a nice trick..with some skill added.

Keep digging the cte hole Neil, I'm sure the truth will eventually be uncovered.

 

[duckie]

You aren't understanding what he is saying. He's not saying what YOU think he is. His perception of both shots is a 15 degree perception. That means, he is going to use the same visuals for both shots.

However, his perspective of each shot is different. His perspective of the shot is from visual intelligence, or experience. That is what tells him where to stand to make the shot. And where to stand to get the proper visuals.

As far as the kitchen counter not being a 2x1 surface, that is immaterial to the discussion he was having. You didn't see him trying to pocket any balls on the counter, did you?

So his perception of a shot being 15 degree means in reality those shots may or may not be 15 degrees.

Use the same visuals for perception but not for perspective.....means CTE is pure subjective.

 

[Neil]

So his perception of a shot being 15 degree means in reality those shots may or may not be 15 degrees.

Use the same visuals for perception but not for perspective.....means CTE is pure subjective.

If you knew ANYTHING about CTE, you would know that it is a 15 degree perception, not a 15 degree angle to the pocket. The 15 degree perception is what visuals to use.

 

[8pack]

So his perception of a shot being 15 degree means in reality those shots may or may not be 15 degrees.

Use the same visuals for perception but not for perspective.....means CTE is pure subjective.

That word is foreign to a few on here.

 

[Neil]

What is hard to understand is how he can create any perception on that table(with no pockets) but yet he couldn't on a meg shift pocket on a regular table. Now it only works on a table that doesn't have the 2x1 only if it has no pockets..:confused. There's nothing about a shot that can give you the right perception other than knowing where the pocket is, which brings up another truth, the curtain, just a nice trick..with some skill added.

Keep digging the cte hole Neil, I'm sure the truth will eventually be uncovered.

I'm not digging any hole, but you sure are! The truth is uncovered. In fact, it's staring you right in the face. All you have to do is open your eyes to it.:wink:

 

[8pack]

If you knew ANYTHING about CTE, you would know that it is a 15 degree perception, not a 15 degree angle to the pocket. The 15 degree perception is what visuals to use.

Many here have the dvd, and there's enough information on forum to give one a great
Ideal on what needs to happen. You keep hearing ..If you knew ANYTHING about CTE.. Whats is it that you think we don't know?

 

[ENGLISH!]

Just for general info. In case someone wants to substitute a word or phrase.

Perspective basically means point of view

Perception basically means a way of regarding, understanding, or interpreting something

Subjective basically means personal, individual, instinctive, or intuitive.

Objective basically means being true outside of any individual interpretations, feelings, or imaginings.

 

[8pack]

I'm not digging any hole, but you sure are! The truth is uncovered. In fact, it's staring you right in the face. All you have to do is open your eyes to it.:wink:

But you are, were just trying to stop ya from digging it to deep. Sooner or later your
gonna fall in. What staring me in the face is the disbelief on how far out there some of you are. Are you cte guys all from Colorado??

 

[Patrick Johnson]

ENGLISH!:

There is no need for any experiment.

That is basic geometry & the actual physics of the situation.

cookie man:
That's one of your problems, opinions from behind the keyboard.

There is no need to try an aiming system to see that it's not entirely "objective". That's the most-often-told tall tale in these discussions.

If you can visualize spatial relationships in some detail it's easy to see - without knowing how to play pool, much less how to use any particular system. It's not even a pool question; it's simple spatial reality.

Of course, not everybody knows this because not everybody visualizes spatial relationships easily - that's probably one of the strong attractions of aiming systems.

pj
chgo

 

[Neil]

Many here have the dvd, and there's enough information on forum to give one a great
Ideal on what needs to happen. You keep hearing ..If you knew ANYTHING about CTE.. Whats is it that you think we don't know?

You keep saying you know CTE pretty well. In that case, does what duckie said make any sense to you? It shouldn't, because he is thinking that it is a 15 degree angle to the pocket.

 

[ENGLISH!]

There is no need to try an aiming system to see that it's not entirely "objective". That's the most-often-told tall tale in these discussions.

If you can visualize spatial relationships in some detail it's easy to see - without knowing how to play pool, much less how to use any particular system. It's not even a pool question; it's simple spatial reality.

Of course, not everybody knows this because not everybody visualizes spatial relationships easily - that's probably one of the strong attractions of aiming systems.

pj
chgo

:thumbup2: :thumbup2: :thumbup2:

I don't know if those few words are going to convince some of the truth of those few words.

Best 2 Ya,
Rick

 

[Neil]

There is no need to try an aiming system to see that it's not entirely "objective". That's the most-often-told tall tale in these discussions.

If you can visualize spatial relationships in some detail it's easy to see - without knowing how to play pool, much less how to use any particular system. It's not even a pool question; it's simple spatial reality.

Of course, not everybody knows this because not everybody visualizes spatial relationships easily - that's probably one of the strong attractions of aiming systems.

pj
chgo

1. You agreed that a line visualized from center to edge was objective.
2. You also agreed that a line from edge to 1/4 ob was objective.
3. If those are objective, center cb is also objective.
4. 1/2 tip is an objective distance.

Now, which part is not objective??

 

[swest]

Just for general info. In case someone wants to substitute a word or phrase.

Perspective basically means point of view

Perception basically means a way of regarding, understanding, or interpreting something

Subjective basically means personal, individual, instinctive, or intuitive.

Objective basically means being true outside of any individual interpretations, feelings, or imaginings.

Yeah, I was a little surprised that Neil used the word 'perspective' in his post...

- s.west

 

[swest]

1. You agreed that a line visualized from center to edge was objective.
2. You also agreed that a line from edge to 1/4 ob was objective.
3. If those are objective, center cb is also objective.
4. 1/2 tip is an objective distance.

Now, which part is not objective??

The 'rotation', of course... wait, let me get Stan's own words...

04:00
If we move over to the next one, I have... there's my Center-to-Center, from this perspective, as I begin my rotation... there we go... there we go... still not there... still not there... now, there we are, so I'm slightly oriented on this ball differently from the first two, but my objectives are visual. So, it's from here that I just do my normal left sweep, right into the spot to cut that ball in.

But his 'objectives' are VISUAL!

Oh!!!!

 

[Patrick Johnson]

1. You agreed that a line visualized from center to edge was objective.
2. You also agreed that a line from edge to 1/4 ob was objective.

Sure.

3. If those are objective, center cb is also objective.

Do you mean the "visual" that uses the CTE and aimpoint line in some mysterious way to "objectively" show you where "CCB" is? I think that's exactly where most of the subjectivity is.

4. 1/2 tip is an objective distance.

And here's where the rest of the subjectivity is, the final fine tuning. I doubt a 1/2 tip is the same from shot to shot. And with the midair "sweep" in Pro1 all pretense of uniformity is gone.

pj
chgo

 

[ENGLISH!]

Yeah, I was a little surprised that Neil used the word 'perspective' in his post...

- s.west

Yeah Sam,

I think the whole thing could possibly have been going on for all these years because of a misunderstanding of & subsequent continual misuse of language.

Some through no real fault of their own, but I have known some to twist words on purpose for their own agendas.

Best 2 Ya,
Rick

 

[Neil]

Sure.


Do you mean the "visual" that uses the CTE and aimpoint line in some mysterious way to "objectively" show you where "CCB" is? I think that's exactly where most of the subjectivity is.


And here's where the rest of the subjectivity is, the final fine tuning. I doubt a 1/2 tip is the same from shot to shot.

pj
chgo

You agree that those lines are objective. Those lines give you a fixed cb. Once you see both lines lined up correctly, you simply look straight at the cb. That is your fixed cb. On your fixed cb, you find center. Center is easily objective, as you have a top and bottom point to draw a line straight through. Doesn't get any more objective than that.

From your center ccb, you have 1/2 tip offset. Again, very objective. Place your cue at 1/2 tip from center and then pivot back to the center. Very objective. As far as the fine tuning after that, there isn't any. You are now on the shot line.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Once you see both lines lined up correctly

What does "lined up correctly" mean?

From your center ccb, you have 1/2 tip offset. Again, very objective.

Sounds good on paper. In practice I'm sure it isn't nearly as uniform as you believe, even for you.

pj
chgo