Follow English????

[berlowmj]

I can draw & stop the CB & I am making some progress on making the CB deflect off the object ball &/or rail at predictable angles.

I am baffled when I try to make the CB follow the object ball. I hit above the equator of the CB, but the results are erratic. Help?!!

 

[Pinocchio]

?????????

You're not following through.

 

[ridewiththewind]

I agree. Personally, I think it is much harder to execute a great follow shot than it is to hit a great draw shot. With follow shots key things that MUST be right is a true stroke, speed control, and follow-through.

I work very hard on my follow shots. It has been a huge asset to my game!

The words of Steve Mizerak will forever echo in my head:

DRAW FOR SHOW, FOLLOW FOR DOUGH

Lisa

 

[chilli66]

Now I'm the opposite of that. I can stun the CB easily & get a lot of draw but my follow has always been my strength. If I'm having problems with draw I'll always go with follow (or top to us Brits) to get me out of trouble.

 

[Stones]

The problem that most people encounter with follow is they will line up the shot with the tip of their cue above the center of the cue ball on their practice strokes but on their final delivery stroke, they will dip back toward the center of the cue ball causing the cue ball to stun or a weak follow shot.

One thing that helps me hit a clean follow shot is to lower my back hand and have the cue as level to the playing surface as possible on the delivery stroke.

 

[TheConArtist]

the Gap Shot revisited, otaye now to make this drill even more detailed place a striped ball as the ball to hit into the pocket after cueing the oneball as remembered to see if you have a good follow through, now even more place the striped ball vertically so the stripe is up and down and centered now when you follow through you will be able to tell if your cue goes to the left or right after contact, as the striped on the ball should roll straight but if see it have english then your stroke is to the side after contact. This is a drill that i love to test your follow thru, + stroke.

CueTable Help

 

[DoomCue]

You're not following through.

Follow through has absolutely nothing to do with how much spin is applied to the CB. If the CB isn't rolling forward when it hits the OB, it isn't going to follow, regardless of the amount of follow through. This would imply to me that the OP's tip is dipping at time of contact. Without seeing him or his stroke, I'd be willing to bet that either his bridge length is too long or his grip is too far forward.

The OP isn't hitting the CB above center - it's as simple as that. The CB doesn't care whether you follow through an inch or a foot - it's already gone by the time the tip gets to its natural rest following contact.

-djb

 

[Billy_Bob]

Follow is easy to learn and comes in very handy. You are on the right track to learn this. Note that "What goes forward comes back!" So instead of draw, you can use follow, it will hit the rail, then come back!

To practice follow shots, set the cue ball 1 diamond back from the object ball. Hit high on the cue ball and follow through. (Be sure to chalk well each time before shooting, especially around the sides of the tip.)

Get the cue ball to roll 1 diamond past where the object ball was.

Then 2 diamond past. Then ,3, 4, 5, etc. Get cue ball to roll to far rail and stop. Get cue ball to hit far rail and come back. Then maximum follow. Place cue ball 1 1/2 diamonds behind object ball, use closed bridge, hit as high on the cue ball as is possible, and use tons of follow through.

I would suggest getting the Jim Rempe training ball. This will show you how high and low you can hit the cue ball. Some people don't know you can hit that high on the cue ball for follow. I need to use a closed bridge to prevent a mis-cue when hitting the extreme edges of the cue ball. Anyway more toward center = less follow. Higher up = more follow. Less follow through = less follow. More follow through = more follow.

http://www.pooldawg.com/product/jim-rempe-training-billiards-ball

 

[jsp]

I am baffled when I try to make the CB follow the object ball. I hit above the equator of the CB, but the results are erratic. Help?!!

I believe inconsistencies for follow shots happen because we tend not to hit the CB high enough above the equator.

The amount of follow the CB will have is obviously directly proportional to how much forward roll it has at impact with the OB (assuming a full hit). If the CB has full natural roll (CB is not sliding), then the amount of forward roll is directly proportional to the its linear speed.

Physics says that if you hit the CB at least 0.4*R (where R is the radius of the CB) above the CB's equator, then the CB will immediately have natural forward roll after impact with the cue. Thus, for this case, the amount of follow is simply related to how hard you stroke the shot (and of course the type of cloth).

However, hitting the CB anywhere between the equator and the 0.4*R point will make the CB slide to an extent, and how much forward roll the CB will have at impact with the OB will not only be a function of hard you stroke the shot, but also exactly how high you contact the CB, the distance between the OB and CB, and the type of cloth. Therefore, for shots that can allow it, it is much easier to control your follow shots if you simply hit the CB high enough.

Of course, not all follow shots can be solved by hitting the CB high. Difficulties arise when the OB is a distance away from the pocket (4-5 feet) and you want to follow the CB only a short distance (couple inches to a foot). If you hit the CB at 0.4*R and stroke it such that you follow only a couple inches, then the OB might never reach the pocket. Likewise, if you stroke it such that the OB reaches the pocket, then the CB will probably follow way past your intended landing area.

For the above scenario, you'd be forced to hit below the 0.4*R point to meet your objectives. Things get even tougher for "stun-follow" shots, where the above conditions apply AND the OB and CB is a fair distance away from each other (2+ feet). For this specific case, you'd most likely have to hit below the CB's equator, such that the backward spins totally wears off several inches before impact with the OB and the CB accumulates just a bit of forward roll right at impact.

Also, physics says that you have a lesser margin of error if you want to stun-follow a couple inches rather than if you want to stun-draw back a couple inches. Quantifying exactly how much less margin of error would be an interesting exercise in math.

And that's all I have to say about the follow shot.

 

[Andrew Manning]

Follow through has absolutely nothing to do with how much spin is applied to the CB. If the CB isn't rolling forward when it hits the OB, it isn't going to follow, regardless of the amount of follow through. This would imply to me that the OP's tip is dipping at time of contact. Without seeing him or his stroke, I'd be willing to bet that either his bridge length is too long or his grip is too far forward.

The OP isn't hitting the CB above center - it's as simple as that. The CB doesn't care whether you follow through an inch or a foot - it's already gone by the time the tip gets to its natural rest following contact.

-djb

I respectfully disagree; I think it's more likely that elevation is the problem. If you're hitting the CB a little above the "equator", but your cue is elevated, you may still be aiming through the center of the CB, thus not imparting much spin. Also, the elevation, if you're hitting hard, will make the CB skip across the cloth more than rolling, so even the normal tendency of the CB to have forward roll won't come into play.

My advice for the original poster is: use a closed bridge, a LEVEL and compact stroke, and an above-center hit on the CB. Don't concentrate on hitting hard, but rather on making an efficient use of your muscle power; i.e. one smooth contraction of the bicep without holding back with the tricep or steering the stroke. If the ball doesn't follow, then there's something very funny about your equipment. I advise the closed bridge and compact stroke to ensure you're actually achieving the tip placement you're going for.

-Andrew

 

[BillYards]

The problem that most people encounter with follow is they will line up the shot with the tip of their cue above the center of the cue ball on their practice strokes but on their final delivery stroke, they will dip back toward the center of the cue ball causing the cue ball to stun or a weak follow shot.

One thing that helps me hit a clean follow shot is to lower my back hand and have the cue as level to the playing surface as possible on the delivery stroke.

Ding! Ding! Stones is the winner with this great answer! Get the knuckles of your rear hand down on the felt for follow and you will get some amazing results.... cueball path bending forward, big arcs, action that looks almost like a masse.

 

[BillYards]

Follow through has absolutely nothing to do with how much spin is applied to the CB. If the CB isn't rolling forward when it hits the OB, it isn't going to follow, regardless of the amount of follow through. This would imply to me that the OP's tip is dipping at time of contact. Without seeing him or his stroke, I'd be willing to bet that either his bridge length is too long or his grip is too far forward.

The OP isn't hitting the CB above center - it's as simple as that. The CB doesn't care whether you follow through an inch or a foot - it's already gone by the time the tip gets to its natural rest following contact.

-djb

I have to disagree with Doom regarding follow through. True, the cueball needs to be rolling forward to follow after contacting the object ball, but the cueball can also have more spin than is required to just roll forward (essentially "peeling-out" on the felt)... A nice stroke (follow through implied) is required to get consistant cueball "peeling-out".

I am assuming that berlowmj's original question is concerning more than just natural follow....

 

[Rasta]

Please elaborate

Physics says that if you hit the CB at least 0.4*R (where R is the radius of the CB) above the CB's equator, then the CB will immediately have natural forward roll after impact with the cue.

Could you please elaborate on how you obtained the 0.4*R figure? (The more math and physics, the better.) I'm no expert, but other variable including angle of cue elevation and non-bridge hand placement appear to be significant in a mathematical model. Thanks.

Good Rolls,
Rasta

 

[Boro Nut]

I have to disagree with Doom regarding follow through. True, the cueball needs to be rolling forward to follow after contacting the object ball, but the cueball can also have more spin than is required to just roll forward (essentially "peeling-out" on the felt)... A nice stroke (follow through implied) is required to get consistant cueball "peeling-out".

Not sure that's physically possible without a fancy masse. It may feel like it, but the only time the ball rotates faster than it's actually moving forward is in the period after contact with the object ball. To get it rotating faster you need to hit it harder, and the optimum place is through the centre of rotation.

Boro Nut

 

[Boro Nut]

Could you please elaborate on how you obtained the 0.4*R figure? (The more math and physics, the better.)

There's a Technical Proof on Dr Dave's site. The contact point is probably higher than some people imagine, but you need a good tip/chalk to prevent miscuing especially on a power shot, and you can get plenty enough action playing a little more into the meat of the cue ball.

Boro Nut

 

[jsp]

Also, physics says that you have a greater margin of error if you want to stun-follow a couple inches rather than if you want to stun-draw back a couple inches. Quantifying exactly how much more margin of error would be an interesting exercise in math.

Oops, had that last paragraph backwards. It's less margin of error, not more. Just editted it now.

 

[Rasta]

There's a Technical Proof on Dr Dave's site. The contact point is probably higher than some people imagine, but you need a good tip/chalk to prevent miscuing especially on a power shot, and you can get plenty enough action playing a little more into the meat of the cue ball.

Boro Nut

Thank you for the link. I feel obligated to point out that Dr. Alciatore disregarded any vertical motion of the tip during its contact with the CB. This vertical motion has a significant effect on the angular momentum of the CB, and can be varied with grip hand placement, due to the pendulum like motion a shooter's arm as (s)he executes his/her stroke.

Dr. Alciatore also neglects cue elevation, and assumes linear cue motion parallel with the bed of the table, which is often not the case.

A very interesting site, nonetheless. I look forward to examining the information provided more as time permits.

Good Rolls,
Rasta

 

[DoomCue]

I respectfully disagree; I think it's more likely that elevation is the problem. If you're hitting the CB a little above the "equator", but your cue is elevated, you may still be aiming through the center of the CB, thus not imparting much spin. Also, the elevation, if you're hitting hard, will make the CB skip across the cloth more than rolling, so even the normal tendency of the CB to have forward roll won't come into play.

My advice for the original poster is: use a closed bridge, a LEVEL and compact stroke, and an above-center hit on the CB. Don't concentrate on hitting hard, but rather on making an efficient use of your muscle power; i.e. one smooth contraction of the bicep without holding back with the tricep or steering the stroke. If the ball doesn't follow, then there's something very funny about your equipment. I advise the closed bridge and compact stroke to ensure you're actually achieving the tip placement you're going for.

-Andrew

I respectfully agree and disagree. I disagree about the closed bridge for follow; I would never advise using a closed bridge for follow shots unless someone is completely uncomfortable with or incapable of making a proper open bridge.

I do agree with you that elevation could be the culprit. Not seeing the OP's stroke in person makes that analysis difficult. However, if he's aiming at say 1/3 or less down from TDC (top dead center) on the CB, he'd have to be elevated pretty high at the butt in order to generate stun instead of follow. But again, we don't know how high the OP is aiming, or if he's jacked up, or anything, so he probably should get some help from an instructor.

Knowing what I know, though, I'd guess the OP isn't hitting the CB where he thinks he is.

-djb

 

[Boro Nut]

Knowing what I know, though, I'd guess the OP isn't hitting the CB where he thinks he is.

I agree, considering it's probalby the case on 99% of shots that go wrong. Most people think they can hit centre ball no problem. But draw a little cross an a piece of wood for them to prove it and suddenly they're all over the place.

Boro Nut

 

[DoomCue]

I have to disagree with Doom regarding follow through. True, the cueball needs to be rolling forward to follow after contacting the object ball, but the cueball can also have more spin than is required to just roll forward (essentially "peeling-out" on the felt)... A nice stroke (follow through implied) is required to get consistant cueball "peeling-out".

I am assuming that berlowmj's original question is concerning more than just natural follow....

I think slow-motion photography proves that follow through doesn't really matter - we follow through so we don't waste energy stopping the cue. The CB could care less - it's already gone when the tip goes through where the CB used to be. What matters to the CB is how hard it was hit, and how off-center it was hit.

I agree with you that a nice stroke in general has a nice follow through, but the follow through is a consequence of the stroke, and has no bearing on the CB. Again, the CB only cares about what happens at time of contact - what happens before or after doesn't matter to the CB.

I agree with Boro Nut about your "peeling-out" (Boro, you surprised me with a serious post...) - it isn't going to be caused or seen when being struck with a level cue. I think we've all seen it happen with CB to OB contact, but never with level cue to CB contact.

-djb