Fouette Help

[tatcat2000]

in fact fouettés are so hard to judge than it is always judged as a foul in other carom disciplines than artistic.

There is no basis I am aware of for this statement. If you have documentation please offer it. My post above is relevant.

B

 

[erriep]

There is no basis I am aware of for this statement. If you have documentation please offer it. My post above is relevant.

B

hi Buddy . Well, you're right, there is no documentation for it.
I should have written that i live in France, and we have so few referees here than most carom league tournaments are judged by volonteers ( = without proper referee formation. they are just humble players, volonteers because they have free time to be the ref during a tournament) , except A & master only national tournaments . That's why here, in the carom games, except artistic, players avoid to play a fouetté each time they aren't sure to be properly judged. Anyway, it's a rare shot.

 

[tatcat2000]

hi Buddy . Well, you're right, there is no documentation for it.
I should have written that i live in France, and we have so few referees here than most carom league tournaments are judged by volonteers ( = without proper referee formation. they are just humble players, volonteers because they have free time to be the ref during a tournament) , except A & master only national tournaments . That's why here, in the carom games, except artistic, players avoid to play a fouetté each time they aren't sure to be properly judged. Anyway, it's a rare shot.

Sorry...didn't mean to be snippy...was way tired when I wrote that. I totally understand your point, and can't count the number of times I have seen a referee's presence at the table change a shot selection, for better or worse...:smile:

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I'll take that question for now Jude, but please say hi to John for me when you see him.

Absolutely we train very carefuly in double hits, and a good part of the physics study every year is double hit avoidance techniques. While the subject shot is so rare that it does not justity extended demonstration efforts during training, other principles that we hammer home hard should result in the proper call (both examples so far in the thread appear to be good hits based on the limited information presented.)

I of course can't cover a four hour long "physics tor referees" class block, but just let me give you the relevant tidbits that are applicable. First and most important lesson - for any shot, not just these - NEVER anticipate the shot!!! You do have to make some key-ball and key-line decisions ahead of the shot, but after that just sit back and let the balls do the talking.

Next some similar and equally important principles: never frame your opinion of the liklihood of a good shot based either on your own skill level or the shooters. Don't expect a foul because you don't possess the skill to legally execute the shot, and don't expect a good hit just because it's Efren or SVB shooting. And a final VERY important mechanic - when the stick goes vertical or the shooter attacks with an "unusual" angle or tip placement, hold the call untill you are absolutely sure of what the balls have done. Because unlike the huge majority of shots with a mosly level cue and tip at vertical center, the odds of the balls doing something completely unexpected skyrocket.

Some of the principles are hard because they fight human nature, but are easy enough to apply with discipline and practice. And of course that's not that's whole story. Can't even begin to completely describe an hour-plus of double-hit training and demonstrations here.

And refs are humans. We'll never get every one right, but it probably won't be because of lack of training.

Buddy Eick
BCAPL Director of Referee Training

Hey Buddy,

Just so we're clear, I consider BCA referees the very best in the world. My reasoning for wanting to show John this shot was simply to see if he would also call it a good hit. I think he will. In fact, I'd be very surprised if he doesn't. With that said, I don't necessarily think every referee (especially a non-BCA referee) is going to see it that way. What's more, I trust John's opinion on the rules better than my own. I am most curious if he has something to say about this shot.

 

[tatcat2000]

I promise I won't tip him off...see you at Nationals if not sooner (Tunica?) Started to
track you down at Nationals last year and got side-tracked.

B

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I promise I won't tip him off...see you at Nationals if not sooner (Tunica?) Started to
track you down at Nationals last year and got side-tracked.

B

Not this year. I'm getting married in October so I'm saving all my vacation days for our honeymoon in Hawaii. I'll see you in 2014!