from snooker to pool: the mechanical changes

[Solartje]

Hi all, i played snooker for 6 years before started playing pool.

i wanted to paste a quote from another post, that i'd like to get more insight in (maybe scott? or others) as im going trough the same phase.

But i find myself having to slightly adjust my action for american pool probably due to the weight difference of the white ball.

I find myself using more of a rolling/rythemical flicking action instead of wat id do playing snooker using more of a smooth punching type action with a deliberate pause.
I pretty sure a few players who've come from a top snooker backround and have played at a high level american pool have had to do the same and change their action a little bit too. (Tony Drago, Steve Davis)

Using what ive learned from poolinstructionals and this forum in pool has improved/change my game, but my stroke , cueaction, stance, grip, etc are still 100% snooker-based.

now im feeling that sticking to it, doesnt give me the full potention in pool. it was perfect for snooker, but i'm feeling hampered in pool. im not playing bad, but i can move the rock Effortless as pro's like efren etc do. i need like 30% more force thgen a pro to get the same action.

people have commented that i have a very good stroke, no body movement AT all, im an icecube , no elbow dropping WHATsoever, only my wrist and underarm move in my whole body. I can play a ball forward and straight back to my tip 95% of the time. so im scared of changing it, but i still can't move it like a pro.

now i did some videotaping again, and when playing it in slowmotion i found that with a snooker-based-position, i need to hit the balls harder then in snooker, wich makes me wrist hit my chest WAY more often, and when it comes to my chest my cuetip swaps left, from my right wrist moving outwards when sliding over my rightchest. it happens after the initial contact, but it DOES seem to have an influence that can explain inconsistency's on some shots. on real force folow shots, the cue almost slips aways from my open bridge.

i tried to lower my elbow a bit so my wrist would pass under my chest, but being already so low and chin on the cue, i hit the rails when doing so...
so i read an article about a snookerplayer having to stand up a little to leave more space for the wrist to pass under the chest on powershots and folowtrough, but comon standing up DURING?? the stroke is a big NONO! so i dont want to go that way.

OK so:

1/ pool= heavier balls = more force needed = wrist hits chest too much and deflects from the chest and creates a sidemovement on the tip... How do you solve this?

2/ ive been trying a more old poolplayer style stance. im standing more up with my body, cue not on chin and i dont use my chest as a 4th contact point and it seems to help, but im not sure i should go this path... why i think it helps:

a/ in snooker the table is so long, that to get the full table in you sight, wich will help seeing angles, positions, etc, you have to be VERY low on the shot. 12ft is to big to see when standing up. in pool this is no problem. actually a higher point of vision, gives an easyer 3d image, with a less "perspective" and more "parallel" vision (not sure im using the right terms...) so it helps seeing my angles ALOT better.

b/ It gives me more space under my chest to let the wrist pass underneath it. unless i use a MASIVE folowtrue, my underarm can rotate more at the elbow before hitting my chest = aka more folow true. and the folowtrough is finished when it hits my chest. on the lower snooker stance, it hit the chest ON the folowthough.

c/ i dont have these NASTY lign on my shirt, from the friction of the unclean wrap/cue.

d/ downside is: without 4th contact point, im strugling to have no sidemovement AT all, but this is just something that needs to be trained with the musscle memory right?

e/ i can experiment with a piston stroke and see wich works best for me. impossible to do a piston stroke with a snookerstance.

3/ closed bridge. as in pool the balls are harder, you need more force, and sometimes a closed bridge isnt enough to keep the cue on the bridgehand. i saw a slowmotion of a world snooker player on a draw shot, and his cue moved 2" in the air before it came to rest on his bridge hand again. so im using a closed bridge now. its true that the cue leaves the bridge AFTER contact, but it just can't be good. so = heavier balls= more force= more controling bridge hand = closed. im probably combining them, and on some shots, a closed bridge hamperes the view of the cue sliding under you in the adressingstrokes, but on other shots, (draw, stun, power) it really is needed for me i think?!

SO:
what did you change when you went from snooker to pool?
Should i change my stance or keep the snooker stance?
how to prevent wrist to deflect on impact with chest on powershots.
anything else you want to add?

 

[crappoolguy]

I play snooker and pool (I'm a beginner-ish) and I use my snooker stroke for both. But this post has been very helpful, thank you. Rep for you.

 

[Solartje]

I play snooker and pool (I'm a beginner-ish) and I use my snooker stroke for both. But this post has been very helpful, thank you. Rep for you.

thx for the reps even if i didnt wrote much info. just my 2c and alot of questions. I have been using my snookerstroke too for 2-3 years, and its working, but i never can get this line out of my head.

"try to get as much action on the cueball with as less as effort as possible"
I never REALLY understead that. ok, i can read english, but what does it REALLY mean.

and when i see TOP players in my country and top pro's i understand what it means, they use a lag speed stroke and get like 5 cussions around the table... perfect motion, folow trough, elbow drop on the topspin, helping english, using sidespin to maintain the speed etc.... where as i would need to play it at double speed to get the same positioning. but i can't get the mechanical meaning of it into my game. and i think that the snookerbackground might be hampering me more on the cue-action then its helping my potting. maybe i'm TOTALLY wrong but you never know i might be right..

and even if the potting is harder without the 4 contact point, its only a matter of training, where as a not fully developed cue-action is something that i think you REALLY need to master if you ever want to get to A level and higher.

instead of using less effort and a good stroke, i use more power (effort) to get there wich results in a worse (chest hitting wrist) stroke. so i am/was doing it wrong right? does this even make any sence at all?
so worth the changes? or other options?

 

[djkx1]

You have some great questions. Although I have no snooker background, I think some players might be limited by the snooker stroke. It may be worth experimenting, however when you see some of the greats like Jimmy White and Alex Higgens move the cue ball, I have to admit it looks like a snooker stroke can work for power shots as well.

Whatever you decide, don't underestimate the importance of consistantly potting the balls.

 

[Solartje]

You have some great questions. Although I have no snooker background, I think some players might be limited by the snooker stroke. It may be worth experimenting, however when you see some of the greats like Jimmy White and Alex Higgens move the cue ball, I have to admit it looks like a snooker stroke can work for power shots as well.

Whatever you decide, don't underestimate the importance of consistantly potting the balls.

i do agree that the greaths like jimmy, alex, ronnie etc can get MASIVE power on there shots, but it all started with an slowmo instructional video of snooker on youtube. ill try to find it, but the website is blacklisted on my job. You would be amased!! on how much the cue moved verticaly and horizontally at the impact. the vertical movement comes from the open bridge and the pendilum stroke, but the horizontal movement was huge too. i was like is this good???

ok, the pro potted the ball, got a HUGE drawaction (PS im 250% SURE thats its easyer to get the same draw on a snookertable then on a pooltable... i used to do pulling tournaments with my friends, and i used to be able to draw 1.5 full 12ft snookertable lenght wich i just can't get on a pooltable. the snookercloth is WAy more gripfull. on the other hand, the lighter balls does so that the snookerball takes more time before the friction reverse the cb's direction. (light aka less downforce aka grips later) but the cloth surely grips more. (i remember burning my hand by sliding my hand over a cloth fast on snookertables, and never happened in pool). i think the cloth + years of training + very horizontal cue makes them very good with draw, but there mechanics (open bridgehand, stance , chesthitting arent ideal for it.)

MAN i need to find this video to explain what i'm saying. it says all in 1 image. its chocking. his cue looked like a gremlin on coke , it went nuts. and it only really is visible in slowmo / highspeed video's. i think it was a video of parot and davis on slowmo instructions.. (maybe someone can quicly find the link on youtube, or ill post it tonight).


PS when im doing the straight lag exercise back to tip, it only works 95% if im doing it at lagspeed (aka my wirst doesnt hit my chest), when i do the same 3 lenghts or more i can't do it, even if the horizontal movement is aplied after the initial contact, on the folow trough it seems to put some english, enough to move the ball 1 ball wide to the side on the way back. the pots i miss the most are powershots. i thought it was because of the deflection, swerve , squirt changes on high vs lowspeed shots, but i think its more because of the tipmovement when wrist hits the chest. hard to tell something like this, but its my theory for my example.

 

[djkx1]

I look forward to seeing the video, but I know what youre saying. I agree the cloth used on snooker tables is a whole different ball game as well.

I just wanted to make the point that sacrificing potting ability for anything else is risky. After all it doesnt matter how much action you get if you fail to make the ball. Likewise if you are potting everything it also doesnt matter how you get there.

I'm not saying that trying to develop a more powerful stroke is a bad idea, just be sure you arent giving up your hard earned accuracy to do it.

 

[Scaramouche]

Steve Davis in his snooker instructional video recommends choking up on the cue for short shots and holding the butt of the cue at the very end for power shots.

I have never seen a similar recommendation for pool (I know nothing about barbox or what adjustments those players make). But snooker has a wider range of distances to be covered because of the larger table and no requirement to drive a ball to a rail after contact. This also explains why the snooker stroke does not necessarily have the the full range stroke of pool as advocated by Randy G, Scott Lee et al. Plus more power needed to move the heavier pool balls

Some people use a pool stance, some use a snooker stance (chin on top of the cue). I think it has to do with what you were trained to use and what you find comfortable. I was watching a video of Canadian 9-Ball play. Many players used the snooker stance, probably because both games are played (unlike the U.S. where there is a pathological adversion to snooker - see another big thread). Many pros coming from snooker use the snooker stance - Alex Allison Karen. Doesn't seem to hurt their performance.

Seems to me that more pool players are using an open bridge now - better sighting.

 

[predator]

... i used to do pulling tournaments with my friends, and i used to be able to draw 1.5 full 12ft snookertable lenght which i just can't get on a pooltable. the snookercloth is WAy more gripfull.

What was the distance between CB and OB? If it was 2.5 meters or more, you have a monster stroke already and shouldn't be asking any questions...

 

[crappoolguy]

Not sure if this is the right video but these seem to match what you were saying: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SaOrEGGrNo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwrQU4YzsQ8
Are they what you meant?

 

[Solartje]

Not sure if this is the right video but these seem to match what you were saying: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SaOrEGGrNo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwrQU4YzsQ8
Are they what you meant?

youtube = blacklisted

predator:
nah usually i used a 30-40cm distance and i do have a powerfull stroke, but whats power without acuracy. Whats the point to draw 15feet if I get unintentional english during the end of the stroke?

scaramouche: Ive also always thought its better to stick to snooker mechanics then to change it all again, but in snooker you hardly use english, you hardly use the rails and combine it with english to aquire more speed without having to increase the strokespeed etc... yes, i could win as many matches with snooker as with pool. Yes i could kick on every ball instead of using a jumpcue, yes i could use a softbreak instead of a powerbreak, yes i could use the right bankangle and risk a double kiss instead of chaning the angle and using speed and spin to adjust the bankangle, etc... thousand of examples where a snookerplayer would do it differently.

but then i ask myself: shouldnt i be playing snooker then instead of pool?

im passed the hey lets play pool instead of snooker, its easyer to pot balls, so its easyer to brag and the chicks dig it. i want to learn about the game of pool, wich in my opinion (and it has changed of the years) is far more complex then snooker ever will be (might be wrong, as ive never played snooker at a pro level, just B level)

djkx1
I understand what you are saying.
about potting balls... the bit of un-straightness because of me not being used to a 2 point contact stroke is just as bad for my potting as this wristslamming. maybe, a bit worse, but the higher stance increases my visual aprouch, thus making it square.

when i watch people with 2 point contact strokes, from C-B to pro level, they all seem to have a straight stroke, so i guess its not TO hard and won't take to long to get those small shaky movement out of the stroke.
I do seem to have to warm up longer to get a good stroke with 2 contacts vs 4 contacts.

i have national ranking event tomorow. I'll play it "old pool style" and i'll see what the result gives.

Anyone who doesnt agree with some points i made? because i have been wrong before feel free to argue.


ow ps here are 2 good example that also explains the problem.

IF you should make a english contest (draw, folwo, etc) in between... lets say reymond ceulemans or seyguiner vs ronnie or jimmy. I'm sure they would get close to equal results, but that the 3c players can do it with a quarter of less force... Reymond isnt the most "sporty spice" of them all, but he can put english on balls like no one else can with less force, so there must be something in the 3cussion or pool game that increases your cueaction. can you ever get the 3c action by using snooker mechanics? im not sure but i dont think so, hence why im thinking of just thinking out of the box, and just try to play pool instead of playing snooker on a pooltable... might work, might not, im young, got the time

a friend of mine beat ronnie in a ringgame of pool. No way he could ever beat him in snooker.
Ronnie is the #1 snookerplayer but will never be the #1 poolplayer, just as efren / shane is the #1 poolplayer and he will NEVER be the #1 poolplayer. the answer to wich is the hardest: none
they are totally different, its like mountainbike riders and tour de france riders, its like speedski'ing and halfpipe snowboarding, its like F1 vs riding the dakar..... you just can't compare it, and genious and excellence in one domain in a sport that coincidates with a domain in a similar sport will stay genious, but it takes more then a pot to win a game of pool, and it takes more then a good break to win a game of snooker.

 

[bsmutz]

That's an awful lot of information and it seems wrong to try to correct everything with one suggestion, but I think it might help. I played pool first, then snooker, so I'm backwards from you. I was thinking that it may be that you are used to a smaller circle of acceptable cue tip contact points from using the smaller ball in snooker. You might want to try moving your cue tip up, down, and to the side farther than you are used to in an effort to get more action. Don't know if you'd already thought of that, so just thought I'd throw it out there.

 

[raybo147]

That's an awful lot of information and it seems wrong to try to correct everything with one suggestion, but I think it might help. I played pool first, then snooker, so I'm backwards from you. I was thinking that it may be that you are used to a smaller circle of acceptable cue tip contact points from using the smaller ball in snooker. You might want to try moving your cue tip up, down, and to the side farther than you are used to in an effort to get more action. Don't know if you'd already thought of that, so just thought I'd throw it out there.

I do not think you have to change your mechanics although pool tables are shorter than snooker tables which usually makes it tricky to use exactly the same stance. In pool english is used a lot more but if you have good mechanics to start with then this should not be a problem. Not different machanics, just different approaches to most of the shots that occur. I played only snooker for 11 years and now I only play pool.

 

[Solartje]

been some time since i posted it, but i defently am changing my style.!!

i havent lost a match since !! and at home im clearing as many racks in 10ball as i was in 9ball. i just feel im close to becoming a A- player. where i had dropped from B+ to a c+ in the last 6 months nice to see im climbing in the rankings again !

im still finetuning it, putting my head a bit closer a bit further, finetuning the stroke (heavy pumping, small pumping, etc) but one thing is for sure: the higher positions solves all my eye/focus, im not aplying any unwanted english anymore from my bodyhitting, i can folow true (even exagerated) without having to worry about hitting my chest, my arm is getting more and more stable.

just amazing, me who have been PRO snooker basics for years... in pool, its just a different game, and i now am able to do shots i couldnt do before. especially the folow true shots !! and i can move the rock around with +- 20% less power = lot more accuracy. Its the first time i have changed something in my game without an initial setback, and with a direct improvement.

im not saying this is a general rule, but it just feels more natural, more comfortable, less tension on the muscles (back, arm, etc), it just feels right, and the results agree! i even dont have the pains anymore in my bridgeshoulder!! and i dont have the black line on my shirt from the cue cliding againts it! (makes the wife happy )

woohoo im one happy man and enjoying the game again. I even got into the zone last week at home, and i have played the best 6hours of pool i did in a LONG time. MAN i'm enjoying the game again ! (maybe its just a placebo type of thing, but i think its more then that. its actually working for me.)

 

[Patrick Johnson]

... in pool the balls are harder, you need more force, and sometimes a closed bridge isnt enough to keep the cue on the bridgehand. ... its true that the cue leaves the bridge AFTER contact, but it just can't be good

Why not? The cue leaving the bridge after contact is only bad in a psychological sense - it might make you nervous about hitting forceful follow and draw shots. If you go to a closed bridge you might be trading more confidence for less aiming accuracy.

Should i change my stance or keep the snooker stance?
how to prevent wrist to deflect on impact with chest on powershots.

As you said, I think standing a little more upright on the smaller pool table is probably OK, even though it may take a little while to be as accurate that way.

i need like 30% more force thgen a pro to get the same action.

I think you need the same force + the same tip/ball accuracy to get the same action as a pro. Somebody else said the larger pool cue tip might be part of the problem. I agree. And there's no reason you can't continue to use a snooker tip for pool - I do and like the additional tip/ball accuracy it gives me.

pj
chgo

 

[Andrew Manning]

Hi all, i played snooker for 6 years before started playing pool.

i wanted to paste a quote from another post, that i'd like to get more insight in (maybe scott? or others) as im going trough the same phase.




Using what ive learned from poolinstructionals and this forum in pool has improved/change my game, but my stroke , cueaction, stance, grip, etc are still 100% snooker-based.

now im feeling that sticking to it, doesnt give me the full potention in pool. it was perfect for snooker, but i'm feeling hampered in pool. im not playing bad, but i can move the rock Effortless as pro's like efren etc do. i need like 30% more force thgen a pro to get the same action.

people have commented that i have a very good stroke, no body movement AT all, im an icecube , no elbow dropping WHATsoever, only my wrist and underarm move in my whole body. I can play a ball forward and straight back to my tip 95% of the time. so im scared of changing it, but i still can't move it like a pro.

now i did some videotaping again, and when playing it in slowmotion i found that with a snooker-based-position, i need to hit the balls harder then in snooker, wich makes me wrist hit my chest WAY more often, and when it comes to my chest my cuetip swaps left, from my right wrist moving outwards when sliding over my rightchest. it happens after the initial contact, but it DOES seem to have an influence that can explain inconsistency's on some shots. on real force folow shots, the cue almost slips aways from my open bridge.

i tried to lower my elbow a bit so my wrist would pass under my chest, but being already so low and chin on the cue, i hit the rails when doing so...
so i read an article about a snookerplayer having to stand up a little to leave more space for the wrist to pass under the chest on powershots and folowtrough, but comon standing up DURING?? the stroke is a big NONO! so i dont want to go that way.

OK so:

1/ pool= heavier balls = more force needed = wrist hits chest too much and deflects from the chest and creates a sidemovement on the tip... How do you solve this?

2/ ive been trying a more old poolplayer style stance. im standing more up with my body, cue not on chin and i dont use my chest as a 4th contact point and it seems to help, but im not sure i should go this path... why i think it helps:

a/ in snooker the table is so long, that to get the full table in you sight, wich will help seeing angles, positions, etc, you have to be VERY low on the shot. 12ft is to big to see when standing up. in pool this is no problem. actually a higher point of vision, gives an easyer 3d image, with a less "perspective" and more "parallel" vision (not sure im using the right terms...) so it helps seeing my angles ALOT better.

b/ It gives me more space under my chest to let the wrist pass underneath it. unless i use a MASIVE folowtrue, my underarm can rotate more at the elbow before hitting my chest = aka more folow true. and the folowtrough is finished when it hits my chest. on the lower snooker stance, it hit the chest ON the folowthough.

c/ i dont have these NASTY lign on my shirt, from the friction of the unclean wrap/cue.

d/ downside is: without 4th contact point, im strugling to have no sidemovement AT all, but this is just something that needs to be trained with the musscle memory right?

e/ i can experiment with a piston stroke and see wich works best for me. impossible to do a piston stroke with a snookerstance.

3/ closed bridge. as in pool the balls are harder, you need more force, and sometimes a closed bridge isnt enough to keep the cue on the bridgehand. i saw a slowmotion of a world snooker player on a draw shot, and his cue moved 2" in the air before it came to rest on his bridge hand again. so im using a closed bridge now. its true that the cue leaves the bridge AFTER contact, but it just can't be good. so = heavier balls= more force= more controling bridge hand = closed. im probably combining them, and on some shots, a closed bridge hamperes the view of the cue sliding under you in the adressingstrokes, but on other shots, (draw, stun, power) it really is needed for me i think?!

SO:
what did you change when you went from snooker to pool?
Should i change my stance or keep the snooker stance?
how to prevent wrist to deflect on impact with chest on powershots.
anything else you want to add?

Are you saying that during your stroke, the cue is touching your bridge, your grip, your chin, AND your CHEST? Is that normal for snooker players? It sounds to me like you do need to get your body away from the cue a little bit, because I think having everything in close quarters like that does make it very hard to swing the cue very quickly.

I'd recommend moving your feet and hips just a few inches away from the cue (which means moving your elbow out a bit further from your body to keep it in line with the cue). This will get your chest out of the way, and it will remove the fourth contact point, but as long as you've got your elbow in the right place, your arm should already be trained to swing extremely straight. If you're having trouble getting no lateral movement when you move your chest away from the cue, I would look at the elbow first as the likely culprit.

After that, I wouldn't change a thing. I don't think there's anything about the snooker stroke that will hold you back in pool, provided you have the freedom of movement to swing the cue a little harder, as is necessary with the heavier cue ball in pool. But the chin-on-the-cue sighting, the rock solid elbow, and the ultra-straight cueing motion that snooker players develop by necessity are all advantages in pool as well. Don't make any drastic changes that would jeopardize those aspects of your stroke that you have worked so hard on.

-Andrew

 

[Solartje]

Why not? The cue leaving the bridge after contact is only bad in a psychological sense - it might make you nervous about hitting forceful follow and draw shots. If you go to a closed bridge you might be trading more confidence for less aiming accuracy.

the cue leaves the bridge because of the deflection. so actually it starts at the exact moment of impact. i wouldnt dare to say that it has 0% influence at all.. how long is the tip contacted? can u say for sure it will aply 0% extra english or influence the stroke in anyway? im pritty sure that on draw and force folow it has an influence based on my experience on the table in the last weeks.

As you said, I think standing a little more upright on the smaller pool table is probably OK, even though it may take a little while to be as accurate that way.

if you dont take into account the stroke (wich always takes a while to adapt to), the ability to see the contact points on the cb stays the same if you are down or more upwards positioned right?

for myself, the increase of potaccuracy of seeing the angles standing up (and judging the contact points) is bigger then the increase of potaccuracy of hitting a contact point by using 4 contacts points compared to 2 points. or do you mean something else?

I think you need the same force + the same tip/ball accuracy to get the same action as a pro. Somebody else said the larger pool cue tip might be part of the problem. I agree. And there's no reason you can't continue to use a snooker tip for pool - I do and like the additional tip/ball accuracy it gives me.

mm i dont totally agree, (at least for my part) imagine a folow shot. if a pro and me would use the same tip and same tipplacement, im SURE that his cb would folow further.

is it because the uses his shoulder to accelerate and get huge power compared to a snookerplayer who uses his albow? (shoulders generate more force then elbows? and you cant use the shoulder in snooker)

why do some people draw 3 diamonds and others 10 diamonds. i think its more stroke related then tipplacement related. (dropping elbow or not etc..) a tip can only have a maximum of ofset before a miscue. I'm not afraid of using MAX english and flirting with the miscue ofset and still i couldnt get the cueball action of a pro and i seem to be able to replay shots of a pro with the upwards body and using the elbow in the stroke.)
ps OFCOURSE it depends on what shot, a straight 10" stopshot, im not going to drop my elbow, but on certain shots its needed. thats why i was talking in the beginning about certain shots that cant be done with same tipofset with a snookerstance.

Am i making any sence?

(ps im playing with a bob frey with a 13mm tip, not a snookertip. the snookercue/tip was perrfect with centerball hits, but when high english was aplied it just felt like the cue would break any second. just wasnt feeling confortable)

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Me:
The cue leaving the bridge after contact is only bad in a psychological sense - it might make you nervous about hitting forceful follow and draw shots. If you go to a closed bridge you might be trading more confidence for less aiming accuracy.

solartje:
the cue leaves the bridge because of the deflection.

To be clear: you must mean stick deflection, not CB deflection (squirt).

... so actually it starts at the exact moment of impact.

I'm not so sure what "it starts" means in this context.

... i wouldnt dare to say that it has 0% influence at all.. how long is the tip contacted? can u say for sure it will aply 0% extra english or influence the stroke in anyway? im pritty sure that on draw and force folow it has an influence based on my experience on the table in the last weeks.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't have any meaningful influence based on my experience using both open and closed bridges for many years.

if a pro and me would use the same tip and same tipplacement, im SURE that his cb would folow further.

I'm sure it wouldn't if you also hit with the same force. How do you think a pro could get more follow if tip, tip/CB placement and force are the same as yours? What other meaningful difference can there be?

why do some people draw 3 diamonds and others 10 diamonds. i think its more stroke related then tipplacement related. (dropping elbow or not etc..)

I think the ultimate difference is tip placement, and how that differs is stroke-related. In other words, a pro's more-reliable stroke allows him to hit the right CB spot a higher percentage of the time, especially when hitting with more force.

... I'm not afraid of using MAX english and flirting with the miscue ofset and still i couldnt get the cueball action of a pro

I think you can get the same cueball action, but not nearly as consistently. This means that you don't for two major reasons:

1. When you really aim to hit near the miscue limit, your more-erratic stroke (mine too!) causes a miscue an unacceptably high percentage of the time.

2. Because of #1, your subconscious won't let you really try to hit near the miscue limit because the disastrous consequences of miscueing makes you "gun shy" (me too!). In other words, you're consciously trying to aim at the miscue limit, but your subconscious is "steering" your stroke away from it "for your own good". Otherwise you'd miscue a much higher percentage of the time when trying to get maximum spin. Your subconscious knows that your maximum is less than a pro's maximum, even if you don't know it consciously.

pj
chgo

 

[stikapos]

Your quandry may be easily addressed. The only guy that I've known to be successful at going the other way (pool to snooker) is Jim Rempe. You could, then, take a cue from his play. My personal opinion from years of watching Alison and Karen (both former snooker players) is that neither often requires the type of "power" you mention, mostly due to superior position play. When/if Alison can't get out, she locks you up like a vise with superior safe play. A power game is great, but as a pro recently told me, most balls are missed using force and english than any other factor. Besides, on today's equipment, little force is typically required. Stay where you are stance wise, and I'd investigate a bit more of a closed bridge.

best of luck in your pursuit,
tim

 

[Solartje]

quick reaction, as there will never be a right or correct answer. i have been thinking like you for a long time. i'm still not 100% sure why my stroke feels more natural with pooltechnique instead of more technical with snookertechniques.

yes i ment the cue deflection

with start i mean, as soon as the tip touches the cb. the shaft deflects, making the tip slide over the surface of the cb, it feels like the tip doesnt slip that much with a closed bridge, and the folow true feels less deviated (sp?) and it just feels better. the swing feels more natural. with a open bridge the shaft can fly in every direction after impact, with a closed it still has to slide true that small gap of the bridge. Its true i dont see my shaft that much, but what do you need to aim? you check tip position (no shaft needed), you check the contact point on the ob (no shaft needed), and you check the line from cb to that contact point. seeing the shaft doesnt help me so much.
I really can't give a scientific prove of why, the swing just feels more natural :s

i'm sure it has an influence, i thought not, but after taping some shots, and playing them at VERY low speed and zooming in on the tip, cb etc, it seems it does. (might be subconsious , that i KNOW i will hit my chest and i dont let the cue go the full 100%. might be it, but if i dont have the problem with a higher stance, why not use it?)

ofcourse 4 contactpoints gives the cue less possibility to move, ofcourse open bridge makes it easyer to visualise, but i am shooting the lights out at the moment and its been so for 3 weeks. i come home every night expecting for the 'initial mental confidence' to fade away, and play my normal speed again, but it doesnt happen. the difference is so big, i would be stupid to change back to my snookertechnique, even if it does make sence in some sort of way, and inother it doesnt.

i do think that the higher body position has the biggest influence in me playing better. i'd say for 80%, i see the lines better (conscious), the rest is just feeling (unconsious).

if it seems that after some time im playing worse again, then i might consider going back to what ive been used to, but as long as i'm shooting like i am, i wont.


I also think that snookerplayer are superior in there positional game. like u said, you wont see karen play force english 3cusion position shots, she doesnt have to, her position is always spot on and always leaves her an easy pot and positioning. her mental strenght also makes her one of the best. the way she focuses etc, its not her powerfull stroke. (not saying u cant be a champion without it, but if you got those shots in your arsenal, it cant be a bad thing)

anyway, i hope people dont think that what im posting is an absolute truth, it seems to work for me, (and im happy about), i might never REALLY know why or give it a good reason, but if its working, why do i need an explenation? efren also 'just' does it. ask him to explain you why, and im sure less players will be able to explain it much better.

ps just run a 2pack of 10ball (never had run a rack of 10b before)

 

[Cornerman]

I think anyone who has paid any attention should see what changes Allison has made in her stance and stroke since moving to pool.

Some astute observers from the snooker world have told me that they don't think Allison's stance is a "snooker stance" at all.

Fred