froze to the rail suggestions?

[DaveK]

i don't know of any pro or instructor that would tell you that you need to be able to use sidespin on this shot.

you don't really have enough of the ball to hit without a great chance of a miscue.

VAP

I think if you compared a 'shoot a frozen ball almost-level and straight' to a wide open 'lots of top and a tiny bit of siding' shot, you'd find that they are about the same. The 'lots of top and a moderate amount of siding' is a miscue waiting to happen, but you can put 1/4 tip or so on frozen shots in my experience. This one for sure takes practice, you should have no problems Of course an even better routine is to practice staying away from the rail ... not that I have that mastered (so I practise frozen shots too).

Dave

 

[the scorpion]

I disagree because I use english on rail shots all the time and I haven't missed one yet and get great position on the next ball 80% of the time what are other peoples opinions on this?.

 

[AuntyDan]

You can get stop (and even draw) on this shot if you aim the elevated stick right through the cushion.

Sure you can, and if you happen to be blessed with a stroke like Corey Duel go for it. However set this shot up and shoot it 10 times and let us know how many times out of 10 can achieve a dead stop shot (let alone how many times you can achieve any kind of draw) AND make the object ball. I know personally getting a stop shot when froze to the rail is at best a 50% shot for me, so I take the follow shot whenever I possibly can which is a 90% shot for me.

 

[BRKNRUN]

How bout froze to the rail with angle

I don't really have much problem with the froze to the rail shot if your shooting realativly straight off the rail.

The shots off the rail that give me some problem is the ball that is froze to the side rail and your object ball is down by the end rail at the other end of the table.

You are now shooting off the rail at an angle...Those get me everytime.....

 

[vapoolplayer]

I think if you compared a 'shoot a frozen ball almost-level and straight' to a wide open 'lots of top and a tiny bit of siding' shot, you'd find that they are about the same. The 'lots of top and a moderate amount of siding' is a miscue waiting to happen, but you can put 1/4 tip or so on frozen shots in my experience. This one for sure takes practice, you should have no problems Of course an even better routine is to practice staying away from the rail ... not that I have that mastered (so I practise frozen shots too).

Dave

i don't use very much sidespin at all on almost any shot for the most part. so when frozen to the rail i don't even think about using any.

most of the time when you're frozen to the rail (or any other shot for that matter) you can get to just fine position without using any sidespin.

why would you try to complicate matter with sidespin, when you can just make the ball, and be just fine? you might not stop the cue ball exactly where you want it, but its 9 ball.......you don't have to.

VAP

 

[vapoolplayer]

I disagree because I use english on rail shots all the time and I haven't missed one yet and get great position on the next ball 80% of the time what are other peoples opinions on this?.

so when is your next telivised match?

VAP

 

[Egg McDogit]

thanks for all the suggestions. currently what I do is, bridge off the rail jacked up maybe 5 degrees. shorten up my stroke and move my right hand up on the stick so it's perpendicular at contact. I line up the shot and look at the cue ball last (only time I do it other than on some kicks) to make sure I hit the middle of the cue ball. I stroke the ball firmly and follow through. Still, my percentage of making one like the one in the wei diagram is low enough that I'd have to consider playing a safe.

 

[Egg McDogit]

I disagree because I use english on rail shots all the time and I haven't missed one yet and get great position on the next ball 80% of the time what are other peoples opinions on this?.

on the shot like the one I diagram, I've got like a 20% chance using english

 

[DaveK]

most of the time when you're frozen to the rail (or any other shot for that matter) you can get to just fine position without using any sidespin.

Yes, if you freeze the cue ball to the rail at the proper location Of course of you can do that, why freeze it in the first place Also, we've been through the 'do you need any sidespin ever in pool ?' discussion quite recently, and many (a consensus even ?) believe that a bit of siding is used for perhaps a majority of shots. The philosophy of using only centerball for position was judged as being a bit limiting to your game, if I recall correctly. I do agree that center-ball hit when cueing against the rail is a prudent move, just not always the best shot.

Anyway, I was simply pointing out that 1/4 tip of siding is not unreasonable for a frozen ball shot. Yes, it does increase the risk of miscueing, but not much. Trying to put 1/2 tip or more increases the risk significantly more in my experience. Of course a poor stroke greatly increases the chances of miscueing all frozen-to-the-rail shots (not directed at anyone, just a general comment).

Dave

 

[Snapshot9]

You guys need to pay attention ...

If you go back and read my post, I said cut shots
were no problem, ONLY on straight in shots when
the cue is frozen to the rail (and the object ball
is at the other end of the table) that I put no
english on the cue ball except low (when I need
to stop it).

And VAP - Low english and draw are NOT the same
thing. You can use low english for a stop shot, a stop
and follow slightly, or a draw shot.

 

[DaveK]

If you go back and read my post, I said cut shots
were no problem, ONLY on straight in shots when
the cue is frozen to the rail (and the object ball
is at the other end of the table) that I put no
english on the cue ball except low (when I need
to stop it).

And VAP - Low english and draw are NOT the same
thing. You can use low english for a stop shot, a stop
and follow slightly, or a draw shot.

In case you haven't noticed, and I would readily believe that you haven't, I pay enough attention to what you post to laugh a bit and make snide comments. I do not consider you an authority ... hell you make up your own names for shots ! I do consider VAP to be a knowledgable and studious player.

Dave

 

[DaveK]

...Anyhow, I like your snide comments just the same. WW

Thanks ww, I try. A nice mix of pool content is also good, and I try that as well. I rarely brag about my acomplishments, skills, knowledge of the game, and power of my mind, mostly because there is little to brag about.

Dave

 

[chefjeff]

Sure you can, and if you happen to be blessed with a stroke like Corey Duel go for it. However set this shot up and shoot it 10 times and let us know how many times out of 10 can achieve a dead stop shot (let alone how many times you can achieve any kind of draw) AND make the object ball. I know personally getting a stop shot when froze to the rail is at best a 50% shot for me, so I take the follow shot whenever I possibly can which is a 90% shot for me.

OK, I just did it. I acheived stop or draw on all 10 shots. I was hitting softly with the object ball about one foot from the cueball. I had to move the cueball down the rail as I went so I wouldn't wear out the cushion or mark it up too bad.

I'm no Corey Duel...if I can do it, I'm sure you can, too.

Jeff Livingston

 

[BRKNRUN]

OK, I just did it. I acheived stop or draw on all 10 shots. I was hitting softly with the object ball about one foot from the cueball. I had to move the cueball down the rail as I went so I wouldn't wear out the cushion or mark it up too bad.

I'm no Corey Duel...if I can do it, I'm sure you can, too.

Jeff Livingston

I am not a big believer that its necessary to hit the cloth... A good player told me a tip to stop and draw with a elevated cue.

"The horizontal axis of the CB remains equal to the elevation of your cue"

Remember that above line and you can hit stop shots and draw from any angle of elevation of your cue.

 

[chefjeff]

I am not a big believer that its necessary to hit the cloth... A good player told me a tip to stop and draw with a elevated cue.

"The horizontal axis of the CB remains equal to the elevation of your cue"

Remember that above line and you can hit stop shots and draw from any angle of elevation of your cue.

Agreed. Yet, hitting the cushion first allows more draw or a softer hit without sacrificing accuracy, imho. I pretty much don't even notice that I've hit the cushion.

Jeff Livingston

 

[LastTwo]

Every practice session for me consists of hitting all kind of shots frozen or slightly off the rail. Some days when I am in stroke I am a favorite to make the shot if I just have to cinch it and not really do anything with the cueball. The method I have developed is of course to shorten the backstroke and choke up on the cue, but I also focus on keeping my backstroke smooth and on the same line, and I don't jab at the cueball, I follow thru. Shorter backstroke, but follow thru nice and smooth. On shots where you have to hit the cueball slightly harder than normal, jack up your cue SLIGHTLY and shoot straight thru it towards the cloth. The cueball will hop and not curve off unless you hit it too softly. Almost all pros do this on that particular shot, some of them jack up alot more than others.

 

[chefjeff]

I am not a big believer that its necessary to hit the cloth... A good player told me a tip to stop and draw with a elevated cue.

"The horizontal axis of the CB remains equal to the elevation of your cue"

Remember that above line and you can hit stop shots and draw from any angle of elevation of your cue.

FYI: When I finished my 10 shot cushion experiment, I started hitting normal shots. I kept miscuing and thought "what the...?" until I realized that my tip had become very smooth from going through the cushion so many times. A little sandpaper and all was well.

Jeff Livingston

 

[Captain]

this is a pretty low percentage shot for me....so I gotta be doing something wrong

I don't think this is an easy shot for anybody. If you have this particular shot on the game ball and don't feel confident about making it, you might consider banking it cross-corner. You might bring the cb back to the foot rail if you miss the bank.

AS

 

[AuntyDan]

OK, I just did it. I acheived stop or draw on all 10 shots. I was hitting softly with the object ball about one foot from the cueball. I had to move the cueball down the rail as I went so I wouldn't wear out the cushion or mark it up too bad.

That's good practice Jeff, but if the object ball was one foot from the cue ball you were not shooting the shot the original poster Egg McDogit was asking about, which is this:

START(
%AU5L1%Pr9W3

)END

Try this shot and let us know how many times out of 10 you can make it and stop the cue ball dead.

 

[chefjeff]

That's good practice Jeff, but if the object ball was one foot from the cue ball you were not shooting the shot the original poster Egg McDogit was asking about, which is this:

START(
%AU5L1%Pr9W3

)END

Try this shot and let us know how many times out of 10 you can make it and stop the cue ball dead.

That's entirely different....never mind.

Jeff Livingston