Fundamentals video analysis

oshua86

oshua86

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here are two videos of me running out to racks, one I was just messing around trying the camara tripod and the other was for a post here on AZ about posting your break and run. In none of them I was really in focus mode, so I wanted to see what the instructors here think about my fundamentals, as far as stance, stroke, pre shot routine, etc.

Here it is, tear it down boys, i'd really like to hear your imput:

http://youtu.be/YIJPzO6gXl8

http://youtu.be/qBAILiioYOY
 
oshua86...Pretty good video. I like your process. You're a fast shooter...nothing wrong with that. On your B&R you jumped up very quickly on the 8ball...maybe because you were a little stretched out over the table. My only advice would be to try to keep still, at least until the OB is pocketed...on every shot! Nice run! :grin:
 
It's far too difficult to identify many of the nuances of technique that may need to be addressed based on these two clips....especially since we never get a really clear straigt-on view from the front or back.

One noticable issue is the way you are holding the cue with your wrist cocked slightly forward. The good news is that it doesn't usually affect alignment but it does affect our ability to extend into the stroke delivery with a relaxed wrist. We experience a similar effect when we grip the cue too firmly and rob our stroke of it natural energy.

This is most easily observed when we attempt to draw the cue ball since the cocked wrist forces us to rely exclusively on the forearm to generate the necessary speed. In your case, the wrist is already cocked forward and cannot be utilized for additional momentum or "fine tuning".

You may have noticed that many of your draw shots came up short of the mark because of this cocked wrist robbing your stroke of its natural flow.

In addition, you hit many of your shots about 30% harder than was necessary to achieve adequate position. On some of the shots, that required a more subtle touch or lighter stoke to maintain position...you pulled up out of the stroke before completion in an effeort to pull some energy out of the delivery.

I believe this also goes back to this cocked wrist you are using. Since nearly all the energy for your stroke must come from the forearm, without the benefit of a relaxed wrist, you are forced to trigger the stroke with greater speed to achive your desired effect.

Because of this, it often looks like you are "punching" the shot to try and add a little center or draw to kill the cue ball action because of your heavy stroke.

In otherwords...your forearm has to do nearly all the work because your wrist is not cooperating and allowing for a natural, fluid delivery.

Whereas, if you relaxed the wrist and straightened it out so that it now can be incorporated or flow as part of your stroke delivery, you won't have to muscle the ball around the table to get your desired position.

In this way you can add much more finesse to your game and your position play will improve.
 
Thank you Scott and Rick for your replies. Those two responses are very much in agrement with what my instructor has been telling me. Those videos are about two months old. For the past two months I have actually been working really hard on perfecting my stroke and my preshot routine. Scott, I have actually added one last thought to my preshot routine, I tell myself right before every single shot "no matter what happens dont move" and then shoot the ball, that has helped by keeping my body and head very still on all types of shots and it has also helped in the fact that since that is the last thought on my brain before I excecute a shot I dont have time to think any negatives thoughts, so far it has helped tremenduously in reducing missing any high percentage shots that I should be making.

Rick, as far as the wrist is concerned you are right, back then I was too concerned on having a proper slip stroke that I guess I would keep my wrist too rigid and cocked forward to achieve it, (also since I have only been playing for a year and a half and everything about my game was terrible my instructor has focus the vas majority of the time on making sure I have correct fundamentals on my stance and alignment and not so much the stroke part until about a month ago), now I have been working a lot on the wrip and the wrist and how it interacts with your arm and forearm, just like the world class players you can tell all interact on perfect timing, and thats the only thing that I have had issues with its the timing of the stroke, but I am getting there. Also, you were right about the speed, now I feel like I can hit shots softer and create the same action if not more which in turns has reduced the amount of balls that raddle out of the pocket.

Thank you both for the imput again, I will be playing a tournament tonight and Im going to try and record one of the matches and then post some more clips to get additional imput.
 
alright guys so I couldn't resist and I made a quick video of me making a bunch of long straight in shots in different angles. What's the veredict this time? :)
 
oshua86...Still looks pretty good to me...other than you "pounding" every shot into the pocket...what's up with that? Try changing tip position and slowing down your stroke speed...and shoot the same shots. Sometimes you need the kind of speed you're shooting...but not all the time, by any means. You have a pretty nice pendulum stroke there sir!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
 
oshua86 said:
Yeah I forgot to post the link...

Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngzCcAvOlt4
Click to expand...

oshua,

It looked very good until you went to the upper left pocket & shot back at the camera. I noticed then that your cue bounced around a bit a couple of times & your tip went to your right a few times.

However you made all of the balls. Some pro players do some different finishes & play very well so I'm not criticizing or nit picking, I'm just pointing out what I saw. For me I would rather my cue go straight through unless I was purposely doing something for some reason.

You can check it for yourself with the camera or you can hit balls down the center string & see if the cue ball returns to your tip. You can also set up two golf tees just in front of the cue ball with just enough room for the ball to go through & see if your finish is in the center or to one side. You can also shoot a ball into a long corner from your finsh distance behind the spot & see if your finish is over the spot or to one side.

Pocketing the balls certainly looked good with no rattles. You shoot a bit harder than I would recommend especially for tight pockets, but as long as you're not hitting points or facings they'll go down. I would also recommend as Mr. Lee did that you vary your speed as that will come into play for position purposes when you're cutting balls.

Good Luck on the journey & have fun,
 
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oshua, without being in the room with you....it's difficult to make any accurare assessments, but I'll tell you what I think...please take it with a grain of salt.

You strike the ball 30-40% harder than you need to.
In my experience, I find that players who have an inaccurate stroke, tend to program their technique to strike the ball very firm because, excessive speed minimizes the throw effect on the object ball. In other words, they are unconsciously applying some level of unintended spin to the cue ball and they use force to mitigate the throw effect.

They have basically programmed the mind to accept that hitting the ball firmly provides better results.

I could not tell but if indeed the majority of your shots were straight-in, then the cue ball should have stayed on the shot line. (Assuming you were not trying to use english to make the shot) On many of your "straight-in" shots, the cue ball wandered to one side or the other and in most cases, appeard to drift to your right.

I suspect that you are aiming at the correct point on the object ball but are likely applying some degree of right spin to the cue ball. When you hit hard, it doesnt throw the object ball out of line and you pocket the shot but the cue ball slides slightly to the right because of the spin.

There are many exercises available to determine if you're applying unintentional english. Consult with your coach on one that he likes and then hit a few soft, medium and hard shots to gauge the results.
 
Thank you guys for your replies, I wil take all your advise under consideration, there's a famous saying "in the multitude of advisers you'll find wisdom" and that's why I like this forum so much, the combined years of experience of many of the members is great. Now, as far as the hitting speed which seems to be the consistent advise and for all reading this thread, you are right, hitting at that speed on a match is wayyyyy too hard, however I only use that to "warm up", when I took that video I had not hit a ball before hand, I like to set up a few long shots and drill them in the pocket before a match of if I have not played yet that day, it just feels like it loosens my arm up, just hit them hard and full stroke, I have no idea if its beneficial or not or if it's just purely mental, I have seen some pros like SVB and Strickland warm up right before a match that way, drilling every shot into the pockets, any thoughts on that?

This is just the beginning, I will be posting more often, more questions and more videos...My goal is to make it into a good A player by the end of 2013, so beat with me and have some patience because I will be picking all your brains a lot and often ;)
 
I'm not a boy but I'll jump in here. I don't understand why your stance is so sideways. You're facing your cue rather than the table. Do you have a cross dominant eye or is there another specific reason for that? I also don't understand why you bend both knees so much. Is there any particular reason for that?
 
FranCrimi said:
I'm not a boy but I'll jump in here. I don't understand why your stance is so sideways. You're facing your cue rather than the table. Do you have a cross dominant eye or is there another specific reason for that? I also don't understand why you bend both knees so much. Is there any particular reason for that?
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The reason being it "seems" like I am facing the cue rather than the table is because I was never able to align my arm properly with the shot, I had extreme "chicken wings" and I just couldnt get that arm to come in, the reason why I said it "seems" its because if you pay attention to the way my feet are placed they are actually placed at a 45 degree angle with the line of the shot. If you look at the side and front facing shots you will also see my forearm close to a 90 degree angle with the cue, my arm parallel to the cue as well and the head right under it. As far as the knee bending I tried all the different ones and thats the one I felt better with, Ive done a lot of board sports all my life (surfing, skateboarding, snowboarding, wakeboarding) and believe it or not its an incredible stable position. I know a lot of commentators bash on players that have a "double crouch" stance, like SVB and Earl Strickland, but it just works very well with me. Now the reason why they are bent so much is because I am tall and the tables are actually incredibly low in that location, if im playing in a diamond or regulation table height then my knees dont bent as much.

Im sure the instructors here will put their 2cents in addition to my reply.
 
oshua86...There is no one correct stance for everyone. There's nothing wrong with your stance, imo. As long as you're balanced, a tripod (some weight on the bridge hand), comfortable, and can sight along the shot line accurately, you can stand however you like. As far as the 'chicken wing' thing, as long as your cuestick strikes the CB accurately, that may not need to be addressed either. A good test for this, btw, is putting a stripe upright on the footspot, shooting up to the middle diamond on the head rail, and see if the stripe returns to your tip (aim above center so you have a rolling CB...and try it at different speeds). I've had students who had a severe chicken wing (in or out), but when they delivered the cue, it went straight through the CB, so it didn't need "fixing". There will be varying opinions on this, but I try to resist "fixing" what's not broken. :D

Scott Lee
http://poolknoweldge.com
 
oshua86 said:
The reason being it "seems" like I am facing the cue rather than the table is because I was never able to align my arm properly with the shot, I had extreme "chicken wings" and I just couldnt get that arm to come in, the reason why I said it "seems" its because if you pay attention to the way my feet are placed they are actually placed at a 45 degree angle with the line of the shot. If you look at the side and front facing shots you will also see my forearm close to a 90 degree angle with the cue, my arm parallel to the cue as well and the head right under it. As far as the knee bending I tried all the different ones and thats the one I felt better with, Ive done a lot of board sports all my life (surfing, skateboarding, snowboarding, wakeboarding) and believe it or not its an incredible stable position. I know a lot of commentators bash on players that have a "double crouch" stance, like SVB and Earl Strickland, but it just works very well with me. Now the reason why they are bent so much is because I am tall and the tables are actually incredibly low in that location, if im playing in a diamond or regulation table height then my knees dont bent as much.

Im sure the instructors here will put their 2cents in addition to my reply.
Click to expand...

I guess I should first identify myself. I forget sometimes that many people don't know me. I am a PBIA Master Instructor, and was a touring pro for many years on the WPBA tour. I have been ranked frequently in the top 16 and my rank was as high as 5th. I am also a former President of the WPBA, and also several time board member after that. I also recently finished 4 years as the North American Representitive in the World Pool Billiard Association (WPA). You've probably heard of them.

Now that that's out of the way:

I studied your videos very closely and unless there's some trick photography going on, you look to be standing sideways to your shot and you are facing your cue. It makes sense that you may have wound up that way as a last resort in trying to correct your elbow issue, and although you can still make shots, I think you could have found a better solution. You may be settling on something you shouldn't.

As for your knee bends, I too played like that for some time. Here's the problem with bending both knees to that extreme: It's impossible to bend them the exact same amount every time. You may at some point wind up bending them too much and will find yourself shooting up at the cue ball. It looks as if you're amost there now. It can happen gradually and you may not even realize you're doing it. Watch for that.
 
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