Gateway Amateur 9 Ball Tour...

Zims Rack

Zims Rack

Promoting the Cueing Arts
Silver Member
Coming soon to the St. Louis/Metro East area!

I'm starting an Amateur 9 Ball Tour our area. I plan to have one event per month for a twelve month tour season. Membership is required to participate in the tour events. Payout to the top 25% of the field with the top Female and top Junior (17-) receiving $50. We plan to host our first Tour Stop in August 2005, time/date/location TBA. You can get more info at www.zimsrack.com. There will be an article about our tour on AZ Billiards in the near future (Thanks Mike!).

We are currently seeking sponsorship from cuemakers, billiard distributors, magazine companies, and others if interested.
Our current sponsors are:

Zim's Rack (of course)
Zimmerman Custom Cue Repair
AZ Billiards
Billiard Sanctuary Acadamy of the Cueing Arts (BSACA)
Billiards Press (Phil Capelle)
Stroketrainer
Slip Stic

More info to come! If interested in becoming a sponsor or have suggestions for a sponsor, feel free to contact me directly at
michael@zimsrack.com
618-409-4175 (CST)
www.zimsrack.com

Thanks in advance for all the support!
Zim
 

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Amateur 9-Ball Tour

Hey Zims Rack, your Gateway Amateur 9-Ball Tour setup looks a lot like the Fury Amateur 9-Ball Tour! Yes, almost a mirror image. It's not surprising, since you contacted us for a tournament directors package, and recieved it, then BOOM! We've got another event coordinator on standby in your area, but were waiting to hear from you about booking our stops. We were really looking forward to working with you. You appear to be a very motivated individual and genuinely good for our sport. Competition is healthy, but tactics like this will hurt us all. When you post your schedule, rest assured we will contact those rooms and let them know what kind of businessman you are! Imitation is the best form of flattery, but not in this case. Good day, sir!
 
vapoolplayer said:
hmmm, thats not cool at all.
Click to expand...

Hey VA.
Are you going to Vegas? I'll be out there for the BCA and VNEA events. If you are going to be out there stop by the Fury booth and say hi. Just wondering because I see your post on here a lot.

FYI: I do have copies of the emails between zims and I with the info.

Kay
 
Kay,
Yes, I did enquire about the KBP opportunity as well as Mike Janis and the Viking Tour. After talking to a few Pool Room Owners in my area, I've come up with a similar Tour to KBP and Viking. Both of the Tours have Pros and Cons for my area. Feel free to contact the Pool Room Owners that will host the Tour stops for our tour, in fact, I'll let them know to expect a call from you. When The Gateway Amateur 9 Ball Tour kicks off, there's nothing stopping you from bringing a stop in our area, as well as Mike Janis and the Viking tour.
I think this is partially why our sport of the cueing arts is not growing at the pace it could. This being... Tour Directors working against each other because they are afraid "their territory" has been invaded and they might not get the income from a particular "new tour". I'm trying to open doors for our sport, not close them.
I apologize to you Kay, if you feel that the KBP Tour(s) has been affected. However, you as well as the Viking Tour has had their opportunity to come to St. Louis area. I thank Mike Janis for stopping into our area in the past few months, it really opened my eyes. Also for giving me the assistance that he has and continues to do.

Thanks to all,
Zim
 
The issue is that you took my info which I sent to you in confidence that you were coming on board. I do not send my info out to everyone and then you mirrored our tour. I or one of my TD's will be contacting the rooms on your schedule. The problem with the tours is people working against each other which is exactly what you have done. You have taken someone else's idea and are trying to pass it off as your own. I have been in business doing these events for over 7 years. This issue is I understood from your emails that we'd be signing a contract soon and you'd be coming on board. I do have the copies of the emails. I also told you that I would hold up before acquiring another TD for your area waiting on your answer. You did not answer me and I presumed that like everyone else you were very busy. I assumed you'd do the right thing and let me know something but instead you proceeded to mirror my tour. I have a very good backing and following and will take my tour further into all areas as I can. I was hoping that you were more honest than you really are. I guess I should be glad that this came out because now I feel that you cannot be trusted. I expect my TD's to be honest and up front and you have not been. If you had been honest there were things that could have been worked out which I told you that too. Its too bad that you have to use someone else's ideas.
Kay
 
well since this is a public forum........i guess i can throw my 2 cents in :D

kay is not saying that you are on her "turf" zim.

she is saying that you copied her tour. no one cares if there is more than one tour in an area........but when you ask for information on someone's business, and they tell you that the package is for "potential tournament directors" then its not cool to start up a tour that has that many similarities to the tour in which you inquired about being a director.

in fact, what you did, MAY be illegal. even if its not, it is very distasteful

kay, i would suggest that from now on, before you send out your info, you look into getting some kind of non compete contract to send out to the person asking for the info. i'm sure most non pool businesses that are of a franchise nature use some sort of contract like this, and i think you should look into it as well. its not right that someone puts in years to develop a tour, and someone else uses your ideas.

i won't be in vegas this year, hopefully next year.

in closing i'll say this, zim, what would you do if someone asked you for information about starting a franchise of zim's rack..........then a month later, they started up a company on their own and it looked almost exactly like yours? i think you'd be a little irratated.

thanks

VAP
 
Thanks VA for the input. I like your idea about the non compete clause before I send them info. I guess I am a trusting sole. I have always felt that if I said I was going to play a fair game then I would. Kind of like shaking hands at the table before your matches start. Seems like handshakes are not good any more. If you don't mind me using your idea about the non compete cluase prior to the packages I will contact my attorney about that. Sure wish you'd be in Vegas. Would love to chat with you
Kay
 
So, by having a no compete clause, does this mean that there will never be any new tours?
I took good points from your tour and good points from Viking Tour and good points from Teachers Tour and am working on something for the local St. Louis/Metro East area. No plans to expand it, no plans to offer $10,000 for 1st place, just something for the local B and below players to be able to play in competitively. I did mention the KBP Tours and the Viking Tour to the room owners that I've spoken to already.

Kay- where did you come up with the outline or idea for KBP TOUR(S)? I'm sure you got the idea from somewhere, possibly a tour that Tim played in?

There already is hundreds of businesses similar to mine out there, hopefully that continues to grow.

I mean no disrespect to anyone or business, just trying to promote our awesome sport the best that I can with what is available.

Zim
 
not right

Well Mike, you requested the information with intent to join our team. I had even replied to your orignal post about pursuing a tour/division in your area. I have also witnessed someone posting threads in addition to my tour stop announcements, I hope that is not you but from what I have read hear I can only make an assumption that the post was related to you.

My saying is like this.........rude people are not simply ignorant just insignificant.

Good Luck I will be sure to spread the word about your tour ;) HA HA
 
If I had a dollar for every time I have requested information on a competitors product I'd have beer money for months ! I've caught competitors trying to dig information out of my office as well (figuratively, not literally), even then I sent it to them. Industrial 'espionage' is alive and well in the business world, and has been forever. I can just imagine what stories are told in the pool world :eek:

Directly to the subject at hand, I wonder why Mike decided to create his own tour rather than sign with an existing outfit ? Surely that would have been so much easier ... Maybe Teacherman has some insight ?

Dave
 
Zims Rack said:
So, by having a no compete clause, does this mean that there will never be any new tours?


Zim
Click to expand...

no........it means that no one can use someone else's internal information to start one. its one thing starting a businesss that is like another, but once you start asking for information, all the while, giving people the impression that you'd like to go into business with them is wrong.

this is more of a principle thing, i'm sure that kay wouldn't have minded giving you some pointers on how to start a tour, if you would have asked her to begin with. but she wouldn't have sent you information that tells you every aspect of her business for free.

again, if you're running a successful business and you thought someone was going to come to work with/for you, you would show them everything they needed to know, all the while under the impression, that they were going to be working with/for you. now that person goes off on their own and takes everything you've shown them and starts a business, that you have no part in...........that sir is very distasteful and downright wrong.

thanks

VAP
 
FYI The idea came strictly from us. The only tour prior to us starting this up that was played on was by my husband Tim and it was the Pro Billiards Tour which he was listed as a developing pro at that time when they went out. He, at that time you had to have enough play to have a spot in the US Open, not just walk up and hand your money over. In fact Tim played in the US Open in 1995. The idea came to us because no one that was an amateur level had a place to play other than local tournaments, league play or open events where they played pros and usually went two and out. Back then to pay $ 65 to $100 plus room to only play a pro was a lot of money for us. We started this in the mid to late 90's. The logo we use for KBP was invented in 1997. My info about this has been published off and on for several years in magizines and up until recently it was on my web site but I have redone some of the items and left it out for extra space for players information.
Kay
 
I wont get into a flame war on this subject here on the forum. Kay- I had intentions to join your team of Directors once I reviewed the info you sent me and talked off line with a couple of room owners I know. You have a contract for the TD to sign, this I never enquired about nor know anything about. (this didn't effect anything though) After talking to a couple room owners (without getting to into details about the KBP tour), I found out that a tour like that or the Viking tour was not desired to much in this area. Like I said before, I took some good from a few tours and am putting together one to fit this area. If it's going to effect KBP this much, I can change the format a little to not reflect your format so close. I mean no harm or foul play to KBP or any other Tour Directors, again, I'm just trying to get something small together for this area.

VA- I understand what you're saying! Thanks for your inputs!

Zim
 
It was like VA said I could work around what was needed. I do it all the time with the different areas and divisions. Different areas and type of play require different attention. I think with all that's been said you know how we all feel and what you've is at the least distasteful.
K
 
KBP said:
Hey Zims Rack, your Gateway Amateur 9-Ball Tour setup looks a lot like the Fury Amateur 9-Ball Tour! Yes, almost a mirror image.
Click to expand...


The way a tour is "set up" is so insignificant I can't believe your upset. The "set up" has no worth and from what I've seen makes very little difference from one tour to the next. The only 2 things that matter in a tour are:

1. Where to get prize money (sponsors, player entry fees, etc.)

2. Where to get players (how to let players know about the event, advertisement, email list, flyers, etc.)

As a RO, I'll hold an event with you, Zims Rack or any other tour that doesn't expect me to totally cover the expense of both items.

Don't sweat the small stuff, let's hold some tournaments!
 
bigoldfatgirl said:
The way a tour is "set up" is so insignificant I can't believe your upset. The "set up" has no worth and from what I've seen makes very little difference from one tour to the next. The only 2 things that matter in a tour are:

1. Where to get prize money (sponsors, player entry fees, etc.)

2. Where to get players (how to let players know about the event, advertisement, email list, flyers, etc.)

As a RO, I'll hold an event with you, Zims Rack or any other tour that doesn't expect me to totally cover the expense of both items.

Don't sweat the small stuff, let's hold some tournaments!
Click to expand...


so if someone was going to come to work at your room.......you gave them all the info about your business in confidence and they turned around a few weeks later and opened a pool room right around the corner.........you wouldn't be upset?

VAP
 
vapoolplayer said:
so if someone was going to come to work at your room.......you gave them all the info about your business in confidence and they turned around a few weeks later and opened a pool room right around the corner.........you wouldn't be upset?

VAP
Click to expand...
Are you telling me this analogy matches what happened?

Are you telling me the tour gets an email from someone they never met inquiring about employment and they respond by giving them "all the info about your business"? Profit and loss statements? Income statements and tax returns? I think not. I'll bet it was info on how the tour operates?

I have no problem giving anyone info on how my room operates. First of all its not rocket science, and second all they would have to do is spend a couple of days playing customer and learn 90% by observation.

As far as someone "opening a room right around the corner", this is the USA.
Capitalist country. Anyone is free to open a room anywhere they want whether they have spoken to me before or not. I knew that going into it and its something I'd just have to deal with. (and then I'd welcome them to the fool's club!)
 
bigoldfatgirl said:
I have no problem giving anyone info on how my room operates. First of all its not rocket science, and second all they would have to do is spend a couple of days playing customer and learn 90% by observation.
Click to expand...

good point............if kay had been approached and asked on pointers for setting up a tour........i'm sure she would have been more than happy to help him. however, she wasn't approached this way........she was approached by someone who gave her the impression they wanted to start one of HER tours there.

he is free to do what he did, and more power to him if he succeeds.........his tactfulness and eithics in this matter however, left much to be desired.

thanks

VAP
 
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